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But you have to understand, black churches aren’t really Christian…

Someone needs to take Tucker Carlson’s bowtie away. Or shove it in his mouth. Or choke him with it. Something.

CARLSON: So Barack Obama is a member of a church called Trinity United Church of Christ. It’s a predominantly black church in Chicago, that espouses something called the “Black Value System,” [PDF] which includes calls for congregants to be “soldiers for black freedom” and a, quote, “disavowal of the pursuit of middleclassness.” Now, it would seem to me, Tom, not to make a broad sweeping statement here, but a racially exclusive theology, a theology that ministers to one group of people, based on race, kind of contradicts the basic tenets of Christianity, and is worth talking about. Wouldn’t you say?


Johnnie Cochran: This is Chewbacca.

Chewbacca Defense


I’m sorry, Tucker… but what? Excuse me? Say again?

CARLSON: Soldiers for black freedom? How about — what about soldiers for freedom for everybody. What does that mean?


Johnnie Cochran: Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with Barack Obama? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with Barack Obama! It does not make sense!

Chew-bacca


What. The. Fuck.

Lindsay at This Modern World helpfully points out that the Trinity United Church of Christ describes itself as “Unashamedly black and Unapologetically Christian” and that its first ethical precept states:

Commitment of God “The God of our weary years” will give us the strength to give up prayerful passivism and become Black Christian Activist, soldiers for Black freedom and the dignity of all humankind.

This information isn’t secret, yanno. I don’t have a special black church access code to find these things. It’s on their damn website. Is it really too much to ask that Tucker do something even remotely journalistic and responsible like research?

I don’t even know why I typed that sentence. Responsibility is not this Partisan Hack’s strong suit. Hell, dressing like an adult in the 21st century isn’t his strong suit.

But I still.. I just can’t.. I… Johnnie?

Johnnie Cochran: Lookit the monkey! Lookit the silly monkey!

Lookit the monkey

*all heads explode*


This your first time on my blog? Want to yell at me about my horrible racism? Do it over on the Open Thread. Keep comments here about the post topic.Tags: , , , , ,

157 thoughts on “But you have to understand, black churches aren’t really Christian…”

  1. healtheland says:

    Hi-Lo Tone:

    “You can believe whatever you want, as that is your right. I don’t have an interest in bashing people of any faith … I simply want people of all faiths to be more realistic about their motives for believing as they do. If we are honest about these motives and remove the hypocrisy of divine right and enlightenment from the religious debate, we can have more honest conversations about our religious differences.”

    OK then, let us cast off the extraenous and go right at the heart of the matter. What do you believe to be my motives for believing what I do? And what are your motives for believing what you do?

  2. astarwashere says:

    IMO, a worthless debate!

  3. Ensayn says:

    Well whites did come here to my land and take it. I am Ani Yuwiya, I am a black man. DNA proves we are all children of Africa, you think because you are of German heritage you are not a child of Africa? Do you know the German patron saint, is Saint Maurice, a black man? Have any of you ever read They Came Before Columbus? Have any of you read Black Indians? Do you know of the more than 10,000 Black Indians shipped to the Caribban each year for more than 7 years. Do you know of the Yamasee, Guale and Timucua? Have you not read of the many many Moors living here before the time of Columbus? Do you know of the Moorish Sundry act of North Carolina? Have you not read Columbus’ own logs describing the people of the Americas as the same color of the people of the Canary Islands off the Coast of Africa? If you are not aware of these things, then why not? The union army never came to the south during the Civil War to fight to free slaves black and white (oh bet you didn’t know whites were slaves too) but to save the union and if it took freeing the slaves then that would be the course, but, that was not the intent. You argue the silly points, you argue about things you don’t know but argue the things you THINK you know.

  4. the angry black woman says:

    jeremiasx, someone is spouting bullshit here, but it’s not Ann. It’s been thoroughly documented that there were many white preachers who condoned lynchings because we have pictures of them AT the lynchings smiling along with everyone else. The KK didn’t condone lynching? wtf dude, that’s absolute crazy talk. Do you think these people are throwing this man a birthday party?

    I’m sorry, but you’ve offered no evidence to back your claims up. Ann, at least, is working with information most of us were already aware of.

  5. nicteis says:

    Healtheland, I’ve read Origin of Species twice. There’s not a single word in there about different races of human beings. Many racists have tried to use Darwin; many other racists have vilified him. He himself was no racist.

    With regard to the thread topic: It doesn’t matter what Tucker has hanging around his neck. His mind is always throttled back by a too-tight bowtie.

  6. Ann says:

    jeremiasx.

    “Ann: I would like to see one shred of evidence of this…

    Has not the white Christian church condoned, and pardoned, from the pulpit, the following atrocities:

    -Slavery (I’ll concede this one, many churches preached “slaves obey your masters” during the time of slavery as a justification for the institution of slavery, and they were wrong for that.)
    -Mass gang rapes against black women and black girls during slavery and Jim Crow segregation
    -Lynching, castration, torture, immolation of black men. Selling of their charred remains body parts as souvenirs

    Your claims are as imflammatory as they are patently false. Please come back to reality.

    “Many leaders of white Christian churches in the South didn’t do ENOUGH to condemn these types of actions, but I know of NO organization that actually promoted them, not even the KKK (even though it was obviously a matter of practice for many of their membership)”

    Many leaders of the white churches and white communities stood by in silence and said nothing, and did nothing to fight against these barbaric atrocities.

    Mnay white churches had white men attending them who sexually coerced and impregnated many black women, but the white churches did not speak out against this practice of degrading black women and black girls.

    Many white church members knowingly had white male family members who had children with black women, children who would be nieces, nephews, and grandchildren. There is no way that white church-goers could have been ignorant of what the white male members of their family were doing to black women.

    Lynching was rampant for decades before white women finally through the Jesse Daniel Ames’s Women’s Campaign Against Lynching during the 1920s and 1930s spoke up, but, only after countless thousands of black men lost their lives. Only after countless thousands of black women and girls were raped and impregnated.

    Silence equals complicity.
    Silence equals acceptance.

    And NOT speaking up condoned and exhorted the cruel barbarities that white Americans practiced against their fellow black citizens.

    “Your claims are as imflammatory as they are patently false. Please come back to reality.”

    No, I speak the truth. You come back to reality.

    White people who committed crimes against humanity against black people were not the only ones guilty of wrong.

    White people who stood by and did nothing were even more wrong.

    And that is not what a Christian does.

    Knowing that a white male in your family impregnated a black woman then abandoned her and the child was certainly a sick way of showing good Christian fellowship towards a defenseless race of women.

    And after a mass gathering of fine up-standing Christians who attended a lynching the Saturday before, many white churches welcomed their cruelty from the pulpit the following Sunday church service with sermons that praised the “fine Christian white men who protected our pure white flowers of womanhood.”

    “Why do we give up our hearts to the past?”

    Because the past is always with us.

    And as long as white America continues to run from her past history of atrocities against her black citizens, the past will always stay with us: black and white, and all others in between.

  7. joethetroll says:

    I saw you on the main WordPress page, and this topic caught my eye. I’m always looking for candidates on my Asshole of the Month contest, and I think thatafter a little research, Tucker might make it for February. Conservative pundits really come in handy for the AOTM contest. Thanks!

  8. healtheland says:

    Ann:

    “Because the past is always with us.

    And as long as white America continues to run from her past history of atrocities against her black citizens, the past will always stay with us: black and white, and all others in between.”

    What is it that you wish for white America to do? What constitutes white America’s ceasing to run away from and starting to own up to and accept responsibility for the past? It is not a loaded or mocking question, but a serious respectful one that hopefully will result in a like response. An even better question – what if you do it and you are still not happy, and are forced to deal with the fact that it was never the source of your negative emotions to begin with?

  9. Ann says:

    healtheland.

    White America to finally to accept and treat as equals her black citizens.

    White America to cease and decease her negative stereotyping of black people as less than human.

    White America to stop her racial profiling of black citizens. Black citizens who enter stores, with money in their pockets, to buy merchandise.

    White America to cease her economic, social, and educational segregation. Especially the segregated abysmally still “separate, but, equal” schools.

    For white America to cease her favoritism with her “Model Minority” mantra (in deference to Asian-Americans), as if there are NO model minority people among blacks; as if there are no law-abiding, patriotic, hard-working people among black citizens.

    White America needs to treat her black citizens with the respect she treats many other non-blacks in America.

    Black women are not hyper-sexualized beasts. (I know I am not.) Black women have morals just as valued as other women. (I know I do.)

    Black men are not rapists beasts. (Many black men raise families and treat women with respect.)

    I certainly do not expect white America to apologize for slavery.

    I certainly do not expect white America to apologize for Jim Crow segregation.

    That will never happen, and it will never atone for white America’s atrocities.

    Yes, white America can atone for the crimes of humanity against Japanese-Americans interred in WWII concentration camps, and pay financial restitution, restitution which came from ALL U.S. citizen’s tax dollars, which means I [and many other black Americans, who had nothing to do with white America’s internment of patriotic Japanese citizens], had to pay.

    I know what I am doing.

    I am not discriminating against white people.

    I am not creating and perpetuating “whiteface” stereotypes against white America.

    I am not degrading and destroying white men or using them, or any man for that matter.

    I am not denying white Americans due process of law (the 14TH Aendment covers that).

    I am not racially profiling white people, denying credit-worthy white people bank loans, denying white people housing in the area of town they wish to live in.

    In short, I am not going out of my way to behave towards white people in a way that is discriminatory.

    All I ask is that white people accept me as a decent human being that I am.

    Not shrink away from me when I know that I have done nothing to them. When I know that I am a good person.

    For white America to stop treating black people as aliens.

    To stop treating us as strangers in our own country.

    Black people have put so much into this country.

    And I do not think it is asking too much that we be given the same respect and equal standing that so many other non-black races in America receive.

    Many races in America have suffered at the hands of white America.

    But, unlike black Americans, those races at least get a reprieve sometimes.

    With black people, the assault on our character, our integrity, our culture, our very being is under constant attack.

    There is no let up.

    I would like for white America to just let us black people be citizens.

    And I do not think that is asking too much.

  10. dpcough says:

    On Colbert they said how Obama isn’t even black, they said he was African from africa and therefore he didn’t go through the hardships and have a past story to tell.

    Obama is barely even American. At least if Obama or Hilary win the presidental bid for Democrats the Republicans will win with a landslide.

  11. marcys says:

    “But you have to understand, black churches aren’t really Christian…”

    Nowhere in the video clip does anybody say this, nor did you actually say this, yet several of the commenters assume Tucker said this. Let’s at least be correct when quoting the guy…that said, he’s a jerk. But hey, I expect a lot worse, and a lot uglier, to come out during Obama’s campaign.

    During Jesse Jackson’s second, and last, run at the Presidency, I talked him up outside of supermarkets, and passe dout flyers. Many many white people flat-out told me, unashamedly, “I caouldn’t vote for a black man.” I don’t think things have gotten that much better since 1988 (altho in regards to a female prez, they may have.)

  12. Kim says:

    Yet again, the point of the matter is that the focus was misconstrued and dramaticized. Obama’s church is not excluding whites from their value system with the Black Value System. Recall, this particular church has a majority black congregation, and considering that the black community has many social issues well known to America (economy, family structure, violence and crime – which comprise some of the core debates during our nation’s elections, ironically..), this church’s goal is to reach out and give aid (spiritual guidance, mostly) to those seemingly most at need. The goal is to strenghten a community. Many would agree that many black communities are socially and economically disadvantaged or deprived. This statement is not racist or prejudiced, (I am a black educated female), it is the truth. Therefore, this system was implemented to empower this mostly black congregation to focus more of its energies into supporting the black community from whence it arose. It is not preaching hate of others or concealing similar love from white or non black peoples, but considering its congregation is mostly black, they are helping their own. There is nothing wrong with that. Many Iglesias in the US send money and support back home to Mexican and South American countries under the altruism of “helping our brothers”. They don’t send money to US homeless shelters or food kitchens. Why? It is simply because minority groups and immigrants have a natural affinity to help their own. It is not racist or exclusive by nature or intent. If the same degree SEVERITY of these issues (poverty, etc) were as prevalent in the White community as in the Black community, equal strides would be made for both groups. (I AM NOT SAYING THAT WHITES AREN’T POOR, but statistically they make considerably more money than most blacks). So, please, before everyone gets upset, and angry – just think about it… No one is losing out, and no one is winning. We all are just trying to survive.

  13. jeremiasx says:

    Ann: I asked for empirical evidence…not anecdotal evidence…while I agree with you on many of your points I do not know that there is any empirical evidence to prove your claims.

    Again…those actions perpetrated against your people (OR ANY PEOPLE) are atrocious and despicable. I don’t believe there was complicity within the churches…and I doubt many of the cowards who did these things were joking with their buddies about them before church on Sunday…let the guilt lie with the guilty, and save your condemnations for those who deserved it.

    Also: If you are worthy of reparations, will I also be able to petition the world court for the rape and pillage of my ancestors by the Vikings holding modern inhabitants of Norway, Sweden, and Finland responsible?

    Will the Native Americans be able to petition for reparations from ALL Americans who are descendants of the expansionists and even original settlers of North America?

    Will I be able to petition for reparations for the injustices committed against my ancestors who were sharecroppers?

    This is a strange concept of entitlement for past wrongs which does not bode well with me or most people who oppose reparations for any group…under your logic when combined with the recorded injustices towards various groups of people, almost ANYONE would be entitled to some form of compensation for some past injustice.

    Are you ready to pay for mine too? Think about it.

  14. Los Angelista says:

    So sad that the rest of the world is so excited about Obama running and clowns like Tucker are saying stuff like, “I like Barack Obama and I don’t think he’s a scary guy.”

    Ok, Tucker. Why would you maybe think he’s scary? Because he’s black? And male?

    Sigh. I wish I could go to the Obama rally here in LA next Tuesday.

  15. ngriffin says:

    I agree with John. I live in a small N.E. Alabama town known as Scottsboro. I, too, attend the local black church as opposed to the one I grew up in.

  16. Ann says:

    jeremiasx.

    “Also: If you are worthy of reparations, will I also be able to petition the world court for the rape and pillage of my ancestors by the Vikings holding modern inhabitants of Norway, Sweden, and Finland responsible?”

    And I ask that you learn how to read. I did not ask for reparations.

    I know that America will never pay black America reparations.

    I asked that we be treated as CITIZENS. Nothig more, nothing less.

    “let the guilt lie with the guilty, and save your condemnations for those who deserved it.”

    And my condemnations as you call them are justified. There are MANY white men walking around now in 2007 America, who are guilty of rape of black women and girls, during segregation. White men who forced sex on black females and got these women and young girls pregnant. There are white men and women who are still alive now, who have participated in lynchings, during segregation.

    There are white people alive now who have committed many cruelties against black people, but, these very white people still live, breath, walk around, unpunished, not brought to justice because white people in their community did not see them brought to justice.

    And I ask that America accord her black citizens the respect that we have more than earned.

    “Will the Native Americans be able to petition for reparations from ALL Americans who are descendants of the expansionists and even original settlers of North America?”

    No, that will never happen. That would mean that every white person would have to leave America.

    “This is a strange concept of entitlement for past wrongs which does not bode well with me or most people who oppose reparations for any group…under your logic when combined with the recorded injustices towards various groups of people, almost ANYONE would be entitled to some form of compensation for some past injustice.”

    Even though I said nothing of reparations for black Americans, you make the statement that I am advocating a “strange concept of entitlement for past wrongs which does not bode well with me or most people who oppose reparations for any group…”

    Keep in mind that reparations come in many forms: monetary, land are just two modes of reparations.

    Yes, Native Americans have in some cases received back some of their tribal lands; Native Americans have received federal government set-ups for casinos (tribal native people have this sanctioning from the federal government as a form of “reparations” to original native peoples in this country.)

    And I have no problem with people wronged by white America receiving some form of justice.

    Be they Japanese-Americans.
    Be they Native Americans.

    And since you wish to twist my words around bringing up the subject of reparations, which I said nothing of, I would appreciate if you comprehend what I wrote.

    You have no proof that white men and white women did not stand around before church and comment to each other about the lynching that occured the day before; you have no proof that white men did not stand around before Sunday school and not tell each other about a black woman or girl they raped.

    But.

    But, the pervasive racist climate of hatred that white America showed black America on a daily basis was endemic.

    The cruelty and barbarity that was meted out to black people would have been just as I described. But, your insensitivity to the prevailing racial climate at that time (“and I doubt many of the cowards who did these things were joking with their buddies about them before church on Sunday…”), speaks volumes. ONLY there would have been NO DOUBT about the actions of these cruel human beings. That a society would allow such vicious behavior against its most defenseless citizens would not preclude such behavior as talking about “last night’s lynching bee/picnic” of a defenseless black man, or “some good ‘ol boy’s” rape of a defenseless black woman or girl, before Sunday church.

    Are you ready to pay for mine too?”

    We black people pay daily for all the lies and crimes that white America has committed against us.

    We pay daily for the most hated racist stereotypes ever created against any race.

    We pay with numerous police shoot-to-death incidents in our neighborhoods because of the cheapness that black life is held in America.

    We pay for believing in this country, its Constitution, its Bill of Rights, more than white America ever has.

    We have paid with countless lives to make white America live up to the laws and creed of this land.

    And we are still paying, for white privilege that many white people enjoy, privilege that came at the expense of black people’s suffering. Privilege that gives white people more breaks in acknowledging their humanity more than a black person’s; privilege that accords more weight to the word of a white person; privilege that gives white people more of a benefit of a doubt.

    We black people are still paying for the evils of racism unleashed upon us by white America.

    Now.

    Are YOU ready to pay for all the sufferings that black people, both living, and dead, have suffered in America?

    Think about it.

  17. g2g555 says:

    I am an Asian and have no doubt that racism exists in every country as long as there is a majority race and minority races. If a church’s mission is to instill godly values and help her people grow in self-esteem (not racial superiority), then I am for it.
    What’s important is the leader of the nation must be a God-fearing man or woman. Uphold godly values (what the founding fathers of the nation did) in every institution.
    It is important that everyone be given equal opportunity without prejudice or any form of discrimination…

  18. Jack Stephens says:

    Something tells me that the ABW should just shut down all of the heartlands comments since this back and forth isn’t really getting us anywhere (all though it is good practice in sharpening one’s critical analysis). heartland is just a troll, plain and simple, and should be treated as one.

  19. blackbeautifulqueen says:

    bravo, abw, bravo

  20. healtheland says:

    Jack Stephens:

    First I was asked to stop discussing the Bible, and I did. Then I was asked to stop passing judgment against Obama’s church, and I did. Now you are calling me a “troll” (when I accepted ABW’s challenge to start a thread for further discussion on my own blog only to have no one who disagrees with me but amico come) and ask me to leave? What do you want from me? What crime have I committed? I could see if I initiated or even returned the vile names and hate – filled comments that have been thrown at me (and that does not even mention all of the words put in my mouth, people insisting on claiming that I have said that “racism does not matter” or “quit complaining and pull yourself up by your own bootstraps” and so on). It is hilarious to blame “this back and forth” on me when I have contributed only a small portion of the 120 posts on this thread, and have not bothered with responding to probably well over half of the angry, baiting, unprovoked attacks against me. And if it “really isn’t getting us anywhere”, well then please pray tell give me an example of a thread that DOES take you somewhere! Those would not be “echo chamber” threads would they? It appears that you are merely one who cannot suffer dissenting opinions no matter how politely and respectfully offered. Therefore, being called a “troll” by the likes of you could quite possibly be construed as some sort of compliment.

  21. healtheland says:

    Ann:

    All of your demands are exceedingly legitimate. However, I can almost guarantee you that they will never be met. Why? Racism will never go away. Racism is human nature. Individuals can overcome it (and though I will not mention it, you can certainly guess the way that I consider how, and I am certain based on your past comments that you would disagree) but groups, societies, peoples, nations, they cannot. And you know what? I am certain that you agree with me. With that in mind is wanting something that you will never have, waiting for something that you will never get, and demanding something that will never be the best way to invest your time, energy, and emotions? Or would you be better off expending those vital things in areas that are going to bear fruit; something positive that will help yourself and also help others? I have to be honest, one of the things that caused me to emerge from the rap music – induced radical stage that I was in was coming into the realization of the incontrovertible truth that racism was never going away; that things were never going to change. I mean, racism has existed throughout human history. What makes us think that we can just up and stop; as if we are so much better and so much more moral than people who lived 500 or 1000 years ago? We may be better educated and more informed, but we CERTAINLY are not more moral; we CERTAINLY are not better people. Once I fully accepted that and realized what it meant, then it became obvious to me that there were other, better things to pursue.

  22. Ann says:

    healtheland.

    “What makes us think that we can just up and stop; as if we are so much better and so much more moral than people who lived 500 or 1000 years ago? We may be better educated and more informed, but we CERTAINLY are not more moral; we CERTAINLY are not better people. Once I fully accepted that and realized what it meant, then it became obvious to me that there were other, better things to pursue.

    And I never said that racism will go away.

    Racism, hatred, cruelty will ONLY go away when the last human being drops dead in their tracks. There is nothing infinitely pure about humans. If people want to continue practicing racism, that is on their conscience. I do not want to run with the crowd, never have, never will. I follow my own drumbeat and if not hating and destroying those around me makes me archaic OR ahead of my time, then so be it.

    And I never said that people should give up on bringing out the best in themselves. Your last part of your comment is self-defeatist.

    Basically, give up, stoop to the level of those who are oppressing you, don’t create a better paradigm for yourself, just buckle up and die. What the heck, racism is so rampant, we all might as well just throw in the towel. Well, I do not think like that. So, because others around me are wallowing in Sodom and Gomorrah America, that means I am supposed to do the same?

    I guess that’s why there were so many rapes and lynchings? So many people gave up, laid down, and died inside because they were to weak to “Stand”, to put on the armour of God:

    “Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

    “For ye wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against pricipalities, against powers, against rulers of the darkess of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

    “Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all,

    “TO STAND.”

    Lay down. Give up. Give over. And die. Inside and outside.

    If my black ancestors did that, if they had that kind of weak, spineless behavior, I would still be living in slavery or worse, segregation, which I considered a hell of a lot worse than slavery.

    No, I do not beleive that people are less moral as the centuries go by. I believe that people see the wrongs that those who came before them did, and vow never to do such things THEMSELVES.

    As I stated in my post to you, I have not done wrong things to people, and I think that shows some moral strength on my own. And I will not sell myself short in that.

    Am I better than someone who has done wrongs? No. Am I better in that I have asked, no, demanded the VERY BEST of myself? Yes.

    Yes, racism will never go away.

    That jinn has been out of the bottle for too long, and all the turning the other cheek by black people will never make it go away.

    Yes, I can overcome my fear of white people. I can hope thaat they will never do again to black people what they have done for over 400 years.

    At least I would hope that the rest of America will not stand by again and let America destroy a part of her population which has never done her any wrong.

    And I disagree with you.

    Racism is NOT human nature.

    And no Christian, Jew, Buddhist, Islamic or any other religion out there, no political belief or cultish factions can convince me that people are born racists.

    I am not that dead inside. I am not that of so little faith in the inherent goodness of humans.

    Yes, people have self-preservation in their genes.

    But, NO ONE is born into this world hating black women only, hating black children only, hating black people only.

    You have to be taught, CAREFULLY TAUGHT, to develop a hatred just because of the color of a person’s skin.

    Skin.

    The outer exterior which is nothing more than a geographical, climactic adaptation.

    Not the person inside.

    Oh, yes, I do live my life well everyday.

    Work, volunteer work, hobbies.

    And I know that I cannot change the whole world.

    I’m not waiting on the world to change.

    But, I’ve always worked on changes in myself.

    And I think I’ve done pretty well.

    I know everyone cannot live up to my very strict standards.

    And I don’t expect everyone to live up to my standards.

    Just me.

    And as long as they are well and sound to me, and cause no cruelty or disregard to all around me, nor as long they do not offend the only Living God in Creation, then I’d say I’m doing alright.

  23. ravana says:

    Healtheland,

    Great stuff, by the way. I have a question.

    You said:

    “…I do know the Bible. At no point does the Bible call the slavery a sin. As a matter of fact, the book of Leviticus explicitly describes how slaves are to be treated.”

    I have a problem with which I hope you can help me. I am a Christian living in Sri Lanka and I keep some slaves.

    Exodus 21:26-27 says, “And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye’s sake. And if he smite out his manservant’s tooth, or his maidservant’s tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth’s sake.”

    Recently I got pissed off with one of my slave girls, but only partially blinded her in her left eye. She is right handed. Do I still have to let her go? What would you advise?

  24. thelonedrifter says:

    ravana, you need to let all your slaves go.

    Ann, I have never met a black person I didn’t get along with. I don’t think I’m an exception, either. I was talking to a couple black people at my workplace and they indicated that nowhere at work did they feel racism directed towards them. What is your bitterness getting you? Does it help you feel better in any way? Or is the truth of the matter that the only person it’s hurting is you. Rather than making random accusations because you’re mad, do your best to make it right. The Bible says that if someone has done wrong to you, you should forgive them “seventy times seven.” It is a figurative way of saying you should never stop forgiving.

    By the way, Ann, what would you say if a black police officer was shot in the line of duty, stopping a white drug dealer. Or what would you say if a black officer shot a white drug dealer? Racism? I doubt it.

    Ensayn, a lot of the evidence you brought up is very shaky. My point simply is this: I’ve never liked or benefited from racism, and I have a problem with you telling me that because I think this “black soldier” mentality is wrong, and I’m a white, male, Christian conservative, that makes me racist.

  25. healtheland says:

    Ann:

    There we go with the putting words in my mouth again. “Lay down. Give up. Give over. And die. Inside and outside.” Where did I ever say that? Tell you what … go check out the title of my blog on http://healtheland.wordpress.com and some of the entries, and you would KNOW that I am not a “lay down give up” person. This is why I believe, or know, rather, that it is impossible to eradicate racism. Racism is a sin, plain and simple. It is to be seen as such, treated as such, and fought as such. Now despite my often excessive verbosity I am not always particularly good at communicating. So, my challenge to you was not regarding your desire to fight, but rather the way you perceive your battle, and how it may be hindering your ability to effectually contend against the foe and its wickedness. Worldly methods are for worldly battles, spirtual methods are for spiritual ones. Hopefully I have done a better job of making my point this time.

  26. Ensayn says:

    Lonedrifter, I don’t know you so I don’t know if you are racist. Yet I do realize whites in this country have benefited from the white supremacy that exist in this country. You have benefited whether you know it or not and thats ok, just understand the possibility of it. Now the evidence I presented is not shaky. It is not the normal mode of thought and information that is commonly shared, but it is true. You can verify the authors and their information. I believe one of the best places to begin would be a book titled Lies My Teacher Told Me, maybe you will begin to see things a bit differently. We need to begin to look at who is feeding us the divisive information and stamp that out.

    Knowlege is power, but applying it is greater.

  27. jeremiasx says:

    Ann:

    Those crimes should be punished by the judicial system whenever possible regardless of the passage of time…I agree with you on that one…however, there are more pressing issues which perpetuate the CURRENT injustice and violence from what I can tell…

    ALL races have their fair share of criminals, but when you look at the real culprit, which is economic disparity, I think you’ll see the true offender. I’m sorry that you or any other American feels this sense of injustice, it means “they” are winning.

    Interestingly enough…I actually believe in theories like “urban gentrification” and the economic oppression of the poor in general…I think the whole country has witnessed this happen in a shockingly apparent way in the aftermath of Katrina and I don’t know that enough is being said about it, especially in the mainstream media.

    My true hope is that the oppressed (of all races) will stop allowing the politics of DIVISION to keep us from true justice and equality. When we look at the overall picture, the system is screwed and we’re all victims of injustice in one way or another.

    Thank you for your responses…I concede that I was wrong in some of my interpretations of the same…and I’ll let you have the last word, as this is your blog, not mine.

    If you are interested, please feel free to visit and comment on my page, I welcome all intelligent discussion of issues.

  28. mozey says:

    waw, black people bailed your cotten for a LONG TIME. the LEAST you can you is give them thier own church AND thier own TV station.

    People that flame “Black Entertainment Television” piss me off.

    “OhHhH BuT WhAt AbOuT WhItE EnTeRtAiNmeNt TV??”, STFU YOU HAVE ONE, ITS CALLED CNN.

  29. the angry black woman says:

    marcys – I never said the title of my post was a Tucker quote. He DOES say that trinity contradicts the basic tenants of Christianity which is real, real close to saying they aren’t real Christians. Think about the way protestants talk about catholics.

    jeremiasx – I’m still waiting for YOU to provide evidence for the crap you’re saying. Until you do, I have no reason to believe anything you say. Also, it’s very sad that your ancestors went through hard times. awww. Boohoo. However, let me ask – how are you suffering because of these past hardships? because I can point to 5 things that happened to me TODAY that are a result of slavery.

    Jack – I don’t think healtheland is a troll. he hasn’t been unneccesarily mean or inflamatory and has argued his points without anger (unlike me). And he does have a point. I did request he move the bible talk to his blog, and he did. I’m sad no one followed since it seems to be a subject many folks are interested in. I encourage a religious discussion, just not here. I mean, i could host one here, but I doubt it would help.

    The lone drifter – “What is your bitterness getting you? Does it help you feel better in any way? Or is the truth of the matter that the only person it’s hurting is you. Rather than making random accusations because you’re mad, do your best to make it right.”

    That is some of the stupidest claptrap I’ve had the pleasure to read today. Sadly, it’s not the first time I’ve heard an argument like that. When you invalidate people’s anger or ‘bitterness’ or any emotions they have that they have a RIGHT to, you automatically lose. Being paternal and high-horsed only makes you look like an ass. Address her comments, don’t belittle them. You jerk.

    also: “I’ve never liked or benefited from racism, and I have a problem with you telling me that because I think this “black soldier” mentality is wrong, and I’m a white, male, Christian conservative, that makes me racist.”

    Um, that’s a HUGE HUGE lie. Go to the search box on the main page of this site and search for “white privilege”. Because you are white, male, and Christian, you automatically benefit from white privilege, male privilege, and dominant religious view privilege. And yes, you have benefitted from racism, even if you do not know it. Even if you don’t wipe your feet on the shirts of black people lying on your doorstep asking for crusts of bread. So just get over yourself.

  30. WhoreChurch says:

    There is no question that many of the positive things that have happened in my life would not have happened if I were black. I have had a successful “career” as a pastor in mostly white southern churches—I doubt I would have had a chance to get hired if I were black. After leaving ministry I have had success as a writer. I suspect my mediocre writing would not have sold to as many editors if they had thought I was black.

    Having said that I have to say this: I’m doing the best I can with the hand dealt me. I have a good hand, I admit, but we all have to play what we are dealt. I don’t hate myself and I don’t hate those of different races, but I do know that I have a family to support, kids in college and I need to take care of my own family.

    Are there ways I can help those who don’t have the opportunities I have had? Certainly. You can count on me to do my part. I just need to know who is speaking for the rights of black people and who is speaking for their own pocket and claiming to speak for the rights of black people.

    That would be a huge help.

  31. the angry black woman says:

    Whore Church, I cannot stop giggling whenever I see your name. And thanks for the badge, I must find a good place to put it!

    I have said this elsewhere on the blog, but no one ever sees it – I definitely believe that every individual has an obligation to themselves to work to get what they want without harming others in the process.

    I can never say that the white man has kept me from doing anything I’ve ever wanted to do. Being black my affect my life, but it doesn’t hinder my life (not all the time, anyway). But I not only attribute that to my own efforts, but also because I come from a family that supports me, a cushy economic background, and a good sense of self instilled in me by my parents.

    I also realize that there are many folks who do NOT have the advantages I have, and therefore they MAY be able to say racism has hindered them. Economics, culture, and society can all contribute to being ‘kept down’.

    This is one of the reasons I appreciate churches like Trinity. Because they seem to be trying to give black folks a way to get around the hinderances that come from racism, sociry, and economics. And they ask that those who do reach this goal turn right around and help others, too.

    Everybody has their own row to hoe. Many peopel experience hardship. But, as a person far smarter than I once said: “Privilege is like driving on a smooth road and not knowing it.” As a white man, your road is smoother than mine. But that doesn’t mean it’s completely smooth and without potholes. I recognize that. I just ask that you recognize the state of my road, too.

    But your comment about those ‘speaking for their own pocket’ is apropos. It goes back to the question I asked in the Black Leadership post. because so often I feel like ‘black leaders’ ARE speaking for their pocket.

  32. WhoreChurch says:

    Thank you for the timely and extensive reply. I was quite surprised you took time to do it, thanks.

    Actually I believe my life has been incredibly blessed (read “pothole free”) in spite of all kinds of reasons it shouldn’t have been. That’s a whole nother story.

    I do wonder how race relations in the US will ever resolve themselves. Maybe you have better answers than others, but I certainly don’t. When leaders (on both sides) are more concerned about themselves than what is really in the best interest of the country, how can the people survive?

  33. thelonedrifter says:

    ABW, I’m afraid you are going to need to tell me just how exactly I have benefited from “white supremacy” that you claims exists in getting my 6.50 an hour job? I’ve not even been through college yet. On the basketball team that I used to play on, there were white and black players, and guess how many of the black players started. ALL OF THEM. Guess how many of the white players started? I have never benefited from racism. I’m poorer than half the black people in this country.

    Umm… dominant religion? Not if one is to believe what I’m seeing on the internet.

  34. thelonedrifter says:

    ABW, I’m afraid you are going to need to tell me just how exactly I have benefited from “white supremacy” that you claims exists in getting my 6.50 an hour job? I’ve not even been through college yet. On the basketball team that I used to play on, there were white and black players, and guess how many of the black players started. ALL OF THEM. Guess how many of the white players started? I have never benefited from racism. I’m poorer than half the black people in this country.

    Umm… dominant religion? Not if one is to believe what I’m seeing on the internet.

  35. the angry black woman says:

    TheLoneDrifter, the answer to yur question can be found when you search “white privilege” from the homepage of this blog. Or you can click on the “Things you need to understand” category. #4, I think, is the one you need to read. Read my intro and all of the essays linked. Once you’ve done that, THEN come back and talk to me.

  36. WhoreChurch says:

    LoneDrifter,

    Everybody has struggles–black and white. The problem with you is your victim mentality. If you don’t like your $6.50 an hour job, quit. Get a better job–the one you think you deserve.

    Of course, if you’re only worth $6.50 an hour then you’re not likely to get one making $7.

    It doesn’t surprise me you weren’t a basketball starter. Because, likely, compared to the starters you sucked.

    I have know many coaches–black and white–and no matter what their prejudice they came on the court to win. You must have been seen by your coach as a ticket to loserville.

    The truth may set you free. But I doubt it.

  37. Ann says:

    “I did request he move the bible talk to his blog, and he did. I’m sad no one followed since it seems to be a subject many folks are interested in. I encourage a religious discussion, just not here. I mean, i could host one here, but I doubt it would help.

    ABW.

    I paid a visit over to healtheland’s blog and left a comment.

    Also, did you catch where jeremiasx thought that YOUR blog was MY blog?

    I knew I was standing my ground with him and not backing down from my principles and my position on this church and the good it is attempting to do, as well as the history of America’s atrocities against her black citizens, but, how on Earth did he get the idea that I was the blog owner?

    I guess the “angry black woman” in us all sure has its effect on people.

    But, then again, who will tell you the truth more times than not, if not a black woman?

  38. the angry black woman says:

    Ann,

    jeremiasx is under a lot of delusions and confusions. We should probably feel sorry for him or something. *tries hard, can’t squeeze out even a drop of sympathy* oh well.

    “who will tell you the truth more times than not, if not a black woman?”

    co-signed!

  39. thelonedrifter says:

    Actually, I led the team in scoring… :) No, I’m not lying. And I was the only white starter.

    Have you ever tried getting a better job than six-fifty if you haven’t even finished high school yet? It’s tough.

    Okay, so I’ll admit, it is remotely possible that I have benefited from “white supremacy.” But that does not make me a racist. And besides, what do you expect me to do about it. Apologize for it? It’s not like I’ve benefited from it by choice.

  40. thelonedrifter says:

    Wait a minute. I have the victim mentality? If I do than I’m not the only one around here. By the way, did I mention that I’ve never met a black person I didn’t get along with? At least in person.

  41. the angry black woman says:

    Lone Drifter, the entire time you’ve been commenting here you’ve been whining. You start out with “stop trying to make me feel guilty because white people in the past did bad stuff!” when, in reality, no one was trying to do any such thing. If you felt guilty, that was on YOU.

    You mention your ancestors who fought in the Union army. But dude, they weren’t fighting to free black people from slavery. That’s a 3rd grader’s view of history and you should probably disabuse yourself of that notion right now. Union soldiers fought to keep the South from breaking off from the country. Slaves were freed as a punishment to Southern landowners (who held the majority of political power) and to cut into their ability to regain their economic superiority. Everyone at the time knew that.

    The thing I find so funny about people who fly off the handle and start in on the “My ancestors didn’t own slaves!!eleventy!” cliche fail to understand that this is less about the past and more about how the past affects the present. At present, you’re a white person. And you’re benefitting because white people were in charage then and are still in charge now. It doesn’t matter if any of these white people were related to you. You could have come off the boat yesterday and STILL benefit from the past.

    By the way, when I mentioned cliches above, I seriously meant it. Nearly everything you’ve said in this thread is such a typical white person reaction that it’s almost as if you’re working from a book. Another essay yu should read is How to Suppress Discussions of Racism. In one comment you blame the victim, invalidate someone’s emotions and experiences, and offer a simplistic strawman argument about cops and drug dealers to ‘prove’ that we only see racism when bad things happen to black people. Oh, and I nearly forgot the “But I have 3 black friends!” cliche.

    Dude, that’s so tired.

    Even your whining about the basketball team is cliched. All of the black players started – so? You’re skewing the information to make it seem like this was a racist choice. It may have been because the white students weren’t as good, it may even have been that there were fewer white students on the team. And I’m sure there are a TON of other reasons why this could be. So, again, you’re trying to weight the conversation with piles and piles of strawmen.

    And now, after all this whining, and tired cliches, and strawmen, and craziness, you tell us that you haven’t even graduated from high school yet! I mean, damn, you implied that you couldn’t get more than $6.50 an hour because you were downtrodden, but it’s really just because you don’t have a diploma. yeah, I can see why it’s hard for you to get more – most folks want AT LEAST that. Shit, I defy you to find me a job for real, working adults (as opposed to teenagers or illegal immigrants) that doesn’t require the bare minimum of a high school diploma.

    So your $6.50/hr job is YET ANOTHER STRAWMAN. yeah, you do come off as a whiny victim because you keep complaining that it’s not fair for us to say you’re racist (which you’ll have to point out to me, cuz I don’t recall anyone saying that) and you don’t have any benefits in life because you work a crappy job and it’s so hard to get a better job and i like black people and stop telling me I’m a bad person and WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

    God damn.

    Here’s another reading assignment for you: Look up ‘White Liberal Guilt’ on this blog.

    Now, you ask what we expect you to do about your white privilege. Well, I’ll tell you. First: stop whining about it. Stop making it out that we’re making you feel bad for your horrible whiteness. because we’re not. If you feel bad, that’s on YOU. Second: Apologies are bullshit and never get anyone anywhere in this kind of situation. Instead, quit pussyfooting around your acknowledgement of white privilege. Own it or STFU. Third: Make it your business to educate yourself on the subject. Observe as objectively as you can how people treat you in relation to how people treat others with more melanin. Learn how white privilege works, how it affects people, etc. become more enlightened.

    that’s all. Easy, huh?

  42. WhoreChurch says:

    Yeah, what she said…

  43. Ann says:

    lonedrifter.

    “What is your bitterness getting you? Does it help you feel better in any way? Or is the truth of the matter that the only person it’s hurting is you. Rather than making random accusations because you’re mad, do your best to make it right. The Bible says that if someone has done wrong to you, you should forgive them “seventy times seven.” It is a figurative way of saying you should never stop forgiving.”

    Where is YOUR bitterness getting you? Is it my fault that you make $6.50 an hour? No. And as for the lies you hurled at me, no, I am not making accusations. If my telling the truth on America’s atrocities and her holocaust against her black citizens fills you with wrath, then that is your problem.

    Learn the history of black Americans. Learn AMERICAN HISTORY. What this country did to my people is so sick that it would turn the stomachs of a pack of wolves.

    Of course, not being a black American you would never know how a black person feels about how this country run by white people has tried to wipe my race off the face of the Earth.
    That is what white America has been trying to do to black people for over 400 years, and white-run America has not stopped.

    Yes, I am angry at what white America has done to black America. And it is righteous anger.

    White America cannot cop an attitude with black America. White America has done far too many abombinations and perversions to begin to question why black America has continued fear and distrust of your race of people.

    Yes, the Bible does say forgive seventy times seven, and that is what black America has done. But, white America , (those white people like you), still have nothing but hatred and venom towards your fellow black citizens. Let one black person do wrong and white people like you will call out all the most vicious hatred and stereotypes you can think of to denigrate ALL black people.

    But, let one white person do wrong, and then it’s okay, that’s just ONE white person gone bad.

    Black Americans have been WAY TOO FORGIVING of a race of people who have tried to rape/bastardize/mongrelize us out of existence; a race of people who have tried to burn and lynch us out of existence; a race of people who have tried to starve and beat us out of existence.

    But, your race has failed. Your race has failed because you cannot and you will not prevail. The evil that your race has perpetuated upon mine will be your curse upon America. Not back people’s. White people’s. Instead of fighting against black people, you should be be quiet and listen to what we have to say.

    White America does not decide what is or is not racism to a black person.

    Only a black person is able to decide that.

    You do not have NOR share the same history with me or my people.

    The sooner you learn, accept, and come to deal with that, the better off you will be.

    “By the way, Ann, what would you say if a black police officer was shot in the line of duty, stopping a white drug dealer. Or what would you say if a black officer shot a white drug dealer? Racism? I doubt it.”

    And that is a stupid question.

    ANY police officer shot in the line of duty would have been killed and those who took his life shall be brought to justice. ANY police officer who shot ANY drug dealer in the line of duty, in self-defense, would be within his/her rights to defend him/herself.

    You hate the fact that black people want to not forget our history in this country.

    And we have a right to remember our history.

    If Native Americans, Japanese-Americans, Latinos and EVERYONE else can have the right to remember and keep sacred their history, then so can black America have that right.

    We are citizens of this country just like you and all the other people who reside in it, and we are especially just as much citizens as are white people.

    Learn to live with it.

    Oh, and by the way, if you do not like how insignificant your life is, do something about it.

    There have been many black people in America who have had LESS than you and they have gone on to make stellar lives for themselves.

    If a black person can do better for themselves, then surely, you a white person with all of your white-skin privilege can do the same.

  44. WhoreChurch says:

    ABW and Ann,

    Here’s the frustration I experience. I don’t have guilt over being white–it isn’t something I had any choice in. I also think everyone has to play the hand they are dealt no matter what race they are.

    I’ve tried to make winning bets with the hand I have–often bluffing, but always trying to win.

    But I do wonder what we can do collectively to heal our society. Anyone who says there isn’t white privaledge is in denial. Anyone who says there isn’t significant racial tension in the US is in denial. Anyone who denys there are those out there who profit from racism are in denial. Anyone who denys politicians exist mostly to get re-elected is in denial.

    So where do you see us going from here? I am truly interested in your input.

  45. Ann says:

    Whorechurch.

    First off, I do not want your guilt. And that is not being offensive. I am being honest and candid with you.

    Your guilt will not bring back the millions of black Americans slaughtered by white America. Your guilt will not wipe away white America’s sins of omission, and sins of commission against her black citizens.

    As I stated above in my response to healtheland on, February 15, 2007, at 5:09PM, I gave my answer on what I would want to see white America do if she really gave a damn about her black citizens, which judging from what I have seen in white America’s behavior, she does not give too much of a damn (at least the majority of white people show that).

    It’s not what you say that shows your true mettle, it’s what you do that shows forth your true intents.

    And actions speak louder than words.

    And white America’s actions speak loud and clear.

    I truly know that what I ask for is so very little, yet, I also know that I will never see any of it in my lifetime.

    As long as white America continues to run from her history of wrongs towards black America, both the past and the present, as long as white America continues to hold down EVERYONE in America, just to hold down black America, then this country will never be the great country it can be.

    America started out wrong in its beginning. And it is still is wrong.

    For starters white America (and I say white America, because white people STILL hold all the power and I do not see them giving it up anytime soon), can stop raising their children to be haters of their fellow black citizens.

    Yes, that’s right. There are many ways a child can be raised to be hateful towards another human being. By omission which is more prevalent today, and also by commission, which is a little less prevalent today, especially with the laws (well, at least on paper) that may work in a black person’s favor to protect them from racsim and destruction from white America.

    What can you do?

    When you see a racist stereotype of a black person portrayed on TV, do you complain to the network?

    When you see the unequal, substandard education system in black schools in comparison to white schools, do you go down to the school board and complain (as I, a non-parent, has done)?

    When you are sitting and talking with a group of white men, and a group of black women walk by, and the white men say hateful, sexist and racist comments about the black women, do you sit by in silence, and not challenge those white men, or do you speak up?

    I could go on, and on.

    The list is endless.

    In the end, asking me what needs to be done is really a moot point.

    If I and other black people can see what needs to be done, then surely, white people can see the many things that need to be done as well.

    It all depends on what the white person allows themselves to see, and what they are prepared to do abouut it.

  46. WhoreChurch says:

    Ann,

    I’m sorry I missed your earlier post. There are TONS of posts here, and I didn’t read every one, but I will go back and read the posts you created.

    You make the assumption that if blacks can see what needs to be done, it must also be obvious to whites. I don’t want to appear obtuse, but I don’t think white people see it as clearly.

    In my experience white people don’t hear the black voice in our society. They (we) dismiss the things they (we) hear because they (we) chock it up to “a victim mentality”, “an entitlement mentality” or “manipulation from insincere black leaders.” As such we don’t hear it clearly.

    There are also a goodly number of us who have no personal experience with black people since we live in areas where blacks are virtually non-existent. While the only black student in my son’s high school is at my house on a regular basis (we’ve known him since he was young), he is the only black young man my sons knew until they went to college.

    That doesn’t help.

    I have had many African American friends—I lived in Memphis—but eastern Tennessee where my sons grew up had very few black families.

    And you also have to realize most white families (just like every family of every race) is first concerned about “them and theirs” before worrying about “the good of society” or “race relations.” The amount of emotional energy and physical resources invested in race relations just isn’t a priority for the majority of any race and certainly whites.

    I’m not saying it “should” be that way, but it is that way whether it should be or not.

    I guess I’m just venting, but I can see this is a huge and growing problem and I often feel helpless to do anything personally about it. I will readily admit I haven’t ever complained to a television network about a stereotypical portrayal of a black person, and I can easily do that in the future, but it seems a small thing compared to the problem.

    Because a black population is virtually non-existant in our community, it doesn’t come up much.

    I will read your other posts and see what else I can do.

  47. Ann says:

    And some more food for thought, Whorechurch, before bedtime.

    Yes, you are right in that MANY white people do not interact with black people.

    Chalk that up to:

    -Continued segregation of public schools (schools today are MORE segregated today than at the time of Brown vs. the Board of Education. Curtail and destroy a person’s education, and you have cut them off from having a decent start in life. Keep education substandard and unequal, and white America can be guaranteed a steady supply of menial workforce just to keep little white boys and girls ahead of their fellow black girls and boys.
    -Churches are still one of the most segregated aspects of so-called Christian American life. Come high noon on Sunday, church service attendance is the most segregated day in the week. Yeah, gimme that ‘ol tyme religion, indeed.
    -Residential segregation is the biggest form of hypocrisy that exists in America. Because where else can you really show where white America is not working towards bridging the vast divide between black America and white America than in the housing situation? And that is where it really sticks in white America’s craw: “Let all them black people in my neighborhood? Hell no. I’ll keep it lily white before I let all those black girls and boys near my little white boys and girls.”

    Yes, in housing, race still matters. And that is why a “multi-racial” neighborhood to a white person is 1-5% mixed; but a “multi-racial” neighborhood to a black person is 25% OR MORE mixed.

    As long as white America maintains a keep all the blacks over here/there/in the inner city and keep all the whites safe and secure from the dreaded plague of black people, then that vast divide, that huge gulf, that enormous chasm will remain open to division, hostility, prejudice, misconceptions, lies, distortions, half-truths, hatred, malice, and mendacity.

    Of course white America’s din of noise, her cacophony of hearing and seeing what she only wants to see is deeply ingrained and as a result she will never be able to see what is right before her:

    -the cliff she is rushing headlong towards in a mad leap to destruction.

    Black citizens are not the problem.

    We never have been.

    And the TV program was just a point that I made to show that black people are not only strangers, aliens, in our own country.

    We are truly INVISIBLE.

    Until some horrid economic, social disaster occurs, then you can be rest assured, someone will figure out a way to blame it all on black people.

    “The amount of emotional energy and physical resources invested in race relations just isn’t a priority for the majority of any race and certainly whites.”

    Yes, we black people sure do know alot about the expending of “emotional energy and physical resources” to try and get this country to stop being the hypocrisy it still is.

    But, even we black people get tired. Even we get worn down from the constant assault upon our bodies, minds, and spirits.

    I sometimes wonder what would happen if we black people decided to say that we are tired. We are tired of so many centuries, decades, and generatons of trying to give this country a wake-up call.

    I sometimes wonder what would happen if all black people said to hell with it, threw in the towel and let someone else fight the battle we have fought for so long. We’re tired, and we are not going to give a damn anymore.

    No, perish the thought.

    God help us if black people ever did that.

    Later.

  48. WhoreChurch says:

    Ann,

    Thanks for taking the time to make a thoughtful and responsive post. I really do appreciate it. So many just post drivel.

    I agree that many places have segregated housing and schools (even though they seem to meet the legal requirements), but in our case the non-white population (which includes Blacks, Hispanics, Asian and other non-Whites) is less than 5% of the total population and I live in one of the poorest counties in the nation. It’s not intentional segregation–at least I can’t see how it is.

    12 years ago we had an abused spouse and her five children live with us for 6 months. My boys have certainly been exposed to black children–and have seen them as their own brothers and sisters–but as far as our local society there isn’t much interaction.

    I don’t know how to fight the battle, nor do I know how you and others can fight the battle. I’m sure you are tired.

    But how does that solve anything? We both agree there is a huge problem, but I don’t hear any solutions from anyone. That’s not your problem, maybe there is no solution. Maybe what would need to happen is so extreme it won’t happen until critical mass is achieved.

    And none of us want that, though it may be inevitable.

    I can embrace African Americans as my fellows, I can teach my children to not see race as the most important characteristic of a person, but will the few of us who do this change the United States? I doubt it.

    One of the most important and insightful statements I have read is one you wrote: “You have already lost.”

    I agree, we (the white ruling class in America) have already lost. We just don’t realize it yet. It will be a very short time until Caucasians are a minority in the US and Hispanics become the majority.

    And while I agree it would be a problem if blacks gave up, it may actually do some good. What if blacks took a day off work? What would happen to our industry, our service providers, our economy? It might be the best wake up call the country could have.

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  55. Angela says:

    Okay before I start lets get it all out on the table. I am a Christian African Amercian Woman and I’m not a big Obama fan simply because I don’t agree with all of his politics. Now with that said, I went to the chruches website and read their mission statement. I found it to be very God centered. It focused on spreading the gospel and building up the christian community within and without their own walls.

    With regards to the Black Values System, I think it’s great for a community or civil rights organization but not necessarily as a founding statment for a church. My reasoning for this is as follows. The church is the body of Christ. It purpose is to be a light unto the world as you bring Glory to God. The point is to spread the Gospel of Christ. The moment that is no longer your primary focus, you need to stop and regroup. A Christian should be Christ centered. Before you are anything you are a Christian. Before you are black, man or woman, daughter, son, mother, father, etc. The moment you take the foucs from God and shift it to your race or anything else you have lost the purpose of the chruch.

    Now I don’t care what churches of the past have done. Pointing fingers to what others have done is juvenille and it shows a lack of responsibility and maturity. When you have a values system for a chruch that mentions God twice, christ twice, christian once and Black well over 20 times, there needs to be a reassessment of who you are serving.

    This is my humble opinion and before you jump on me with you objections or some minor discrepency, I ask that you consider what I said.

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