Thank You, White People
This needs to be said, and it’s a long time coming, so listen up:
Thank you, White people, for all you’ve done for Blacks.
Thank you for kidnapping and/or buying my ancestors in Africa, packing them onto ships where malnutrition, disease, anti-hygenic conditions, beatings, and rape ensured that a significant percentage did not survive the trip, but enough did for you to turn a profit.
Thank you for enslaving my ancestors, forcing them to labor in the fields and in your houses for no pay (room and board is certainly enough!), in poor living conditions, without education, without their families, in many cases, and without hope that their lives would ever get better.
Thank you for raping and beating my ancestors, I appreciate it. Thanks also for forcing them to “breed” as if they were animals, selecting out certain men and women for their strength, hoping that their children would be strong, too, and be able to pick more cotton or engage in other work you couldn’t be bothered to do yourself.
Thank you, White people, for freeing us from actual slavery only to put us in virtual slavery with sharecropping. Additionally, thanks for messing up Reconstruction, enacting Jim Crow laws, lynching, and poll taxes.
Thank you for silencing, assassinating, or disappearing those who inspired us to do better, be better, and stop taking racist shit every minute of our lives. We didn’t need them, anyway.
Thank you for making sure our schools were underfunded, that our neighborhoods were filled with drugs, that any attempts to get the government to correct any lingering problems of racism were labeled “hand outs,” and perpetrating the myth of the Black Welfare Queen taking her food stamps and driving off in a Porche.
We have so much to be grateful for, you see.
And so my brothers and sisters won’t forget:
Thank you, Europeans, for all you’ve done for us through the centuries.
Thank you for coming down to Africa and deciding that every brown or black person you saw was an uneducated savage, assuming because their culture was not like your culture, that they had none worth noting or caring about.
Thank you for colonizing the continent, inciting strife between different tribes, playing one tribe against another until, once many were weakend, you took down the one that was meant to be your ally.
Thank you for using up the continents’ natural resources, for destroying the land in an effort to exploit the natural resources, and for abandoning areas that you fucked up when it became clear it wasn’t going to be profitable for you.
Thank you for inventing the Transatlantic Slave Trade. We owe you one.
Thank you for your continued interference in Africa, which has caused no end of fighting, no end of exploitation, and has contributed to the current climate in many African countries.
Thank you for Apartheid. And throwing Mandela in jail. We didn’t need him, anyway.
Thanks, White people, for everything you’ve done for Black people in America and Africa. We really, really should be more grateful and keep these thoughts in our hearts.
P.S. Dear White people, before commenting on this thread, please click the links in the first sentence. Also, see this illustrated guide. Also, please see this post. Thank you!
Mike,
I’m a government agent who works for the NSA. I’m writing to tell you that it’s not common procedure for members of the FBI to give secret missions away. In order to resolve this slip up before it can affect national security, someone will be along to shoot you soon.
— Ico
A site called “NiggerMania” is full of unbiased reports, right?
…damn, you’re a dumbfuck.
Ico:
*ROTFLMAO!!!
sweeeeet :-D
slavery is over. Has been for more than two centuries
…do you know how to count? A century is a hundred years. Two centuries? Two hundred years. Two centuries ago was 1808, when slavery was alive and well.
I realize that this is but a drop in the bucket of Joe’s general ignorance, but I think it suggests something very important: he’s an idiot.
By the way, I am growing tired of hearing how blacks are “egyptians”. Studies and reports show otherwise.
Do you mean to say that Egyptians aren’t black? Because I don’t know many black folk who claim to be Egyptian. The fact is that ancient Egypt, as the cultural center of civilization that it was, drew to it peoples of all descents, including those we would now call black. Look up Alexandrian history if you want to learn more.
Plain and simple, without the “man”, blacks would die off.
Right. So true. That’s why prior to serious contact with white civilizations, the population of Africa was dying out at a tremendous rate. Oh, wait a minute. That’s not true at all.
I have never heard a japanese person come up to me and bitch about a handout from the “white people of the US” for what happened over 50 years ago.
You do know, don’t you, that the US government has acknowledged that it owes Japanese citizens and their descendents reparations for the internment camps of WW2, right? Do you think that happened out of the goodness of the government’s heart, or do you think that Japanese citizens’ groups perhaps fought and advocated their hearts out to make that happen? Oh, that’s right. You don’t think. You’re ignorant.
Angel, he’s a typical arrogant white person like Pat Buchanan. Keep a kleenex nearby because I’m sure he’s going to keep coughing up the bullshit.
LOL @ Ico.
South Africa: Wow, you shitskins sure have progressed that part of the world as it is almost entirely a cesspool of violence.
Whereas under the rule of whites, it was as peaceful as could be. Unless, of course, you were black, in which case the violence was state-sponsored.
Again, the average I.Q of the white man is significantly more than the average I.Q of a black man.
Wow, you really are ignorant. Look into the history of IQ tests. They were designed that way.
whites can admitt their faults and try to be productive and make up for them.
Well, we’d never know it by you.
LMAO! *ded* The day white folks can admit their faults, even to the small extent of letting a post like this go by without trying to derail it, I will personally chew my arm off!
Again, the average I.Q of the white man is significantly more than the average I.Q of a black man.
Sorry, I can’t let this one go by. Actually, when all confounders are taken into account, there is absolutely no difference between IQ scores of people of different races. I’ll provide links if anyone, even Joe, is interested or skeptical.
Whoops, clicked ahead.
This is the response:
I have NEVER stated any of those things to be true. EVER. Look at my posts, please. I’ll repeat myself–“Please try to read.”
And who the heck are you quoting? Where did I say that I didn’t see color?
Where did I say any of that ABSURD strawman?
I’m not your expectation. I said “stop speaking in generalities.”
What is wrong with this picture? Is there some filter on your computer that renders everything I type into something that it’s not?
“Here’s what pisses me off the most about conversations like these: People of Color – especially, imo, Black people – have to prove that we do indeed face discrimination in our day-to-day lives and how the world views us as a whole. And, when we attempt to do that, when all we want is for people to shut the fuck up and open their damn eyes, we’re the ones who are called “hostile”, “irrational”, “mean”, “playing the race card”, or just plain “angry”!”
Hey, guess what? I never asked you to prove that.
This means that you do fit “irrational.”
And the dumbassery continues…
DUMBFUCK! DUMBFUCK! DUMBFUCK!
You would save me a lot of time, if you even bothered to read a damn book.
South Africa has a majority White government. Thanks for helping things out in the homeland!
The basic instruments of psychometrics (sound it out: PSY-CHO-ME-TRICS; the “P” is silent!) has been shown repeatedly to be flawed, at best.
PROVE IT!
No, you deal with it! Just because the sight of our truth makes your eyes, doesn’t make it any less of a truth. We’re over here dealing some knowledge and it’s made your itchy. You: OMG! What if their right! Damn straight, we’re right! Not only are you a racist prick, but you’re too damn ignorant to even try to back up your points with anything more than “cuz I said so.”
Bullshit.
Admit it. Your eyes are simply to blinded by the truth the comprehend our knowledge. And it scares you. (Why do you think assholes like yourselves make sites like NiggerMania?) So you shove your head up your ass and flounce off like a bitch with her tail between her legs. Now what’re you gonna go? I’ll tell you:
DEAL WITH IT!
OKAY, Now I’m Angry
Well, seems we’ve attracted the attention of White Supremacists! What an exciting development.
Though some on this thread and elsewhere seem to think that I live on this blog and do absolutely nothing else in life, I do have a life, a job, and the need to pee. So I missed a lot of bullshit that went down.
Let me provide some rules for going forward. Those of you who are here from Stormfront? Sorry, but no. We don’t want you and your hateful, racist asses. Any comments from you jerks will be deleted.
To everyone else, if you happen to see a racist piece of bullshit comment, don’t reply. I’m just going to delete it, and I’m deleting most responses to them (though many are funny and intelligent) because it’s only serving to egg them on. Ignore their crazy and concentrate on replying to folks honestly wishing to engage in discussion.
Thank you!
I’ll say it again: “Please try to read.”
Next time, I’m taking off the “please”.
Obviously, only the first part of my post was in direct response to you. (But, if you saw yourself in what I was ranting against, who am I to argue?) Next time, I’ll put in a little clue so you’ll know when I’ve stopped talking to you.
How’s this?: [/blanky]
When people speak “truth” they have the sense to back it up. Remember that word “proof” that we talked about earlier?
Adam Ziegler:
I appreciate your inquiry on this forum as well. I am not able to add my nickel’s worth as often as I like, but I like to scan the posts for “New-Bees” who have thoughtful questions.
As far as resources that will accelerate your pilgrimage to the world of “anti-racism”, I would like to suggest the following:
1) “The Color of Fear” (in VHS or DVD). Extremely hard to find except through inter-library loan at a public library. Came out in the early 90’s. Men from all different backgorunds get together and thresh out some racial matters…and pain.
2) Punch in the name “Tim Wise” and “Professor Robert Jenson” in your search engine. These two white men offer very thoughtful and sobering reflections on racial issues in the United States.
3) If there is a large bookseller in your area, check out the African-American Literature section. Always plenty of good literature there. I think introductory read for white people is “Showing My Color: Essays on Race and Identity by Clarence Page. Written in the mid-90’s…still very relevant. Other authors that are worth reading are Eric Michael Dyson and Tony Brown. And, ff course, MLK’s autobiography should be ready by everyone!
Also, I happened to list black men that I read, but I believe it is equally important to read books written by black women – Melissa Harris-Lacewell and Beverly Daniel Tatum are two very good authors. I am sure other member so this forum can suggest good female black authors.
All The Best,
Adam
Sorry for the typos in my post above. I know that drives some of you crazy.
Blah blah blah, blah blah blah. *yawn*
Thanks, ABW.
Adam:
Thanks so much for the list of awesome stuff! Just getting started on educating myself, and the pointers are much appreciated. I will look for the resources you have mentioned.
I find it laughable that so many idiots refuse to simply acknowledge that there is a measure of privilege in this country for those who are white. It’s not about being born with silver spoons in their mouths….it’s not about money or class.
I’m biracial and have a white brother. Was he born into money….NO…my parents don’t have much at all. Is he personally responsible for discrimination. No. But I tell you what……he could take my husband’s Navigator and drive it through the richest neighborhoods free and clear. My husband, a black man, however, would be stopped, searched, investigated and sent away with hesitation – because SURELY he has no business owning a Navigator and driving through a rich neighborhood. SURELY he must be a drug dealer. And after being sent on his way, he’ll get stopped again, searched again, investigated again and unlawfully detained AGAIN another mile up the road.
Don’t tell me there isn’t an inherent privilege to being white in the country. Those of you who deny it, are seemingly unable to grasp a perception that is different from your own.
Pat Buchanan was beyond out of line with his rhetoric. Someone explain to me why the media hasn’t fried him up the same way they have Rev. Wright. Hell, why haven’t they fried up Robertson or Hagee who’ve said that America is damned for it’s position on gays and abortion? What – THAT’S not unpatriotic and un-American? Really?
Great post ABW!
In light of all the things that happened on this blog in the past few days, I would have to add a hearty thank you to the racist white people who seem to think that believing “white is right” is the ONLY way to be an American. Let me add to that a thank you to people like Bush and Buchanan who have also tried to put a tag on what it means to be American.
What it means to be an American is bigger than race or political stances. Newsflash: you can be an American and get angry. You can be an American and have criticisms. You can be an American and still be pissed with the direction in which the country is headed. You can be American and despise and protest the government’s crimes against other nations and moreso, the crimes against people on our own soil. So, racist white people, you don’t get to decide for me what is or is not American.
I want more lists.
This one is good and valid (though not complete – people keep adding)
but I want more.
I want, “Thank you, Men” and “Thank You, Religion.”
Black women especially, and women in general, seem to spend a lot of time stuck under the thumb of these two groups.
We could probably also do with a “Thank you, Rich People.”
And then we could sell t-shirts.
There is so much that people are entirely unaware of.
OneShySistah:
AWESOMENESS!!
Sometimes, all that’s needed is a simple ‘ Thank You’.
Bumpy, I would commend the white community for not using other minority groups as scapegoats for all the ills the country and whites failings/shortcomings, focusing on their own community shortcomings as opposed to everyone else’s, not-raising entitled men with a superiority complex, not giving a boost to patriarchy, staying free of domestic hate crimes at home and instigating covert/overt wars abroad, making cheap,simply, healthy alternatives to much need necessities hard to come by, and above all getting out of the way of minorities or not putting obstacles in their way when they try in alot of cases, to no avail to attain progress through upward mobility but it ain’t happened yet.
It would also be O.K. for future reference if you choose not to post here-BUT You probably will!
Sincerly, another ABW
Great post. Thank you for writing this and for expressing your anger in such clear and nonhateful ways.
Would you consider changing the phrase of
“Thanks also for forcing them to “breed” as if they were animals”
to
“Thanks also for forcing them to “breed” as if they were commodities”
The forcibly impregnated animals, the animal rights community, and I would really appreciate it. The crime is not in treating humans like animals; the crime is in treating humans (and animals) like commodities.
This whole conversation resonated for me and made me furious. Thank you.
Elaine, as a fellow vegan and white person, I really have to question your comment. Considering all of the controversy that surrounded this post, and all of the hateful comments that ABW received from white supremacists over it, I find it a little disturbing that you came here to thank ABW for her “tone” and take issue with her use of the word “animal” in this way.
Have you ever read the work of Breeze Harper? This interview is a good place to start for understanding why white animal rights activists should be be sensitive about addressing the slave/animal comparison when talking with communities of color. There is a time and place for that discussion, but I think it is inappropriate here.
This is in respect, from one anti-racist and animal rights ally to another. I’ll be happy to have this discussion by email or on one of our blogs so as not to derail this thread.
Emily
[My apologies if the HTML doesn’t work, ABW!]
Hi. Without empathy or having walked in the another’s shoes, it’s almost impossible to understand what the other is going through.
Here are my thoughts: We’re maximizing racial differences by using the terms Black and White. Generally we are variations of beige and brown. We should stop referring to people as opposite colours.
There seems to be a lot of controversy as to what racism truly is. I think it matters when a person actively promotes and supports the idea that a race is inferior and therefore does not deserve the same respect or opportunities. It also matters when a person denies their racism but still discriminates based on race.
At the point we’re at now, it’s very hard to get up, move on and not be resentful if you’re not of North European descent.
I’m a fair Italian living in Australia. When most people discover I’m Italian, a mind-boggling cascade of cliches and stereotypes are hurled at me. Conversation is never the same. I give an opinion, and I get back “Oh, I didn’t know Italians thought that way”. I cook anything at all, even curry, and get “Is that an Italian recipe?” They seem to have forgotten that I’m an broad individual. It’s all well meaning but incredibly dumb!
I’m also an advertising storyboard artist. I can only draw ‘normal’ people, ie: tall, slim and attractive North European types. When I’m I’m asked to draw ‘ethnic’ people they are always stereotypes unless I’m asked to make them ‘ethnic looking but not too ugly!’
A good way to observe inequality is to mentally reverse the roles played in film and advertising. The racism/sexism is alarming!
I wonder if ‘white’ racism deniers (the ones that say it’s the whites that are underprivileged) would lie to wake up ‘black’ one morning as see if they can face the world that way.
Is there a racial hierarchy? Of course there is! There’s not enough room for everyone to be on top and who wants to lose their status?
A lot of people on this blog believe that justice will be kind to those who try to climb out of their ‘perceived’ hole. There is no justice- there are systems. Justice is something we have to fight for. It’s not that easy to move on or up.
Events in history have created these present hierarchies. Whether your great grandparents were involved or not, is irrelevant.
Let’s stop dismissing people’s pain. If we live together we need to move on TOGETHER. StriveForABetterWorld!
As a mostly unrepentant carnivore and fellow white person and human (more or less), I -still- want to crawl into a hole in the ground after reading that. Maybe the “speciesist” thing isn’t so off after all? because I’m pretty sure emus and orcas and so on never come out with shit like this. ABW, on behalf of whomever, I apologize; someone ought to.
on the other hand, I take no responsibility for Pat Motherfucking Buchanan, because he is a twelve foot alien lizard, clearly. good for you for even reading that shit; my eyeballs started to bleed just clicking on that POS. gahhh.
Emily,
“There is a time and place for that discussion”
I think that decision is ABW’s, not yours and not mine.
Like all discussions of oppression, if not now, when??? When exactly *is* the best time? Should I wait to make sure I don’t offend anyone or help them think about things a little differently or help them confront their own privilege…?
ABW,
For what it’s worth, I mean no harm. I simply desire clarity of language so that one oppression does not beget another. The nature of being “animal” does not express the sentiment of being property. Wild animals are not forced to breed, companion animals are often sterilized and forced not to breed. But the nature of being a commodity in a system of capitalism surely does express the sentiment of being enslaved, forced to breed.
And of course, feel free to delete this comment. It’s your blog and I completely respect your right to control the conversation.
I love this blog its very interesting. I am a 19 year old black female and i have a few things to thank white people about: Thank you white people for every time a black person succeeds saying that “its because their black”. Thank you for affirmative action which is your way to say sorry for all the blacks that did deserve it but didnt get it because they were black. Thanks for judging me because i live in the ghetto. Thanks for the jena 6, thanks for check cashing places in the ghetto(why aren’t there any in the suburbs?), thanks for trying to hide that you really dont like us, thanks for calling us refugee’s in our own country (Katrina), thanks for arresting my boyfriend because he wears a baseball cap. Thank you for telling me to go back to africa , thanks for looking at me and calling me a nigger, thanks for thinking your cool enough to say nigga.. thank you for everything.
Elaine:
I’m going to assume, for now, that animals are oppressed in closely similar ways to the ways various subgroups of humans are. Personally, I am not totally convinced the analogy holds exactly, but I’m going to presume it for now.
Uh, no. While there certainly is a place to address people being sloppy about other oppressions when expressing anger about their own, I think we really need to be careful when and how we have that discussion. While I think it is hugely important to not give people a free pass to say whatever they want and ignore other oppressions, it’s also imperative that people whose anger has been repeatedly criticized, silenced, challenged, and ridiculed be able to express that anger without members of other groups joining the discussion with criticisms and nothing constructive.
For example, I wouldn’t like it as someone to whom disability rights is very important if one of the things on the list was “Thank you, white people, for treating us like we’re retards” (not that I’m saying anyone would actually say this.) But if I barged in with only the most perfunctory “You’re right, we white people can be shits” and then immediately launched into discussion of which words the bad black people are using wrong, I don’t think that would be appropriate. There’s too much of a history of silencing.
Now does that mean I’d never get to mention it? No. But it does mean that my mentioning it should happen within a context of listening to other people’s anger and hurts and respecting that. If I just barge in… why? What is that trying to prove?
“I wonder if ‘white’ racism deniers (the ones that say it’s the whites that are underprivileged) would lie to wake up ‘black’ one morning as see if they can face the world that way.”
The best quote that I saw regarding this was along the lines of “If White people woke up black, they’d shoot themselves before the 6PM news came on.”
Thank you for giving us a month to celebrate our heritage… which is never recognized by most jobs.. hell out of all the months give us the shortest one. Thank you for your weak ass word nigger that will hurt every generation of blacks. Thank you for not wanting to teach us our history in school. Thanks for saying Egyptians weren’t black they were white.. nobody of royalty is black huh? Thanks for hindering us to rise from slavery, you say get over it. How can you get over something that still exist? Modern day slavery is when your cant rise above a stereotype. I’m 19 and i cant get pass the ghetto fast talking big mouth black girl stereotype. I even been called a nigger because i made some white chick mad. Slavery has been over for hundreds of year… or has it???
Elaine,
I’m going to agree with Emily here — I can see that you mean well, but this is a different topic. Yes, it’s ABW’s call as to whether this is off-topic enough to allow. But the fact remains we’re not talking about people anymore; we’re talking about animals. You’re putting their oppression on the same level as the oppression of human beings. While I know many animal rights activists see nothing wrong in equating these things — granted, we are animals — I think you’re also aware that for PoC, comparison to animals has a long, loaded, and painful history. It’s been done by racists for so long that I don’t think it’s possible anymore for any white person to do it in a “well-intentioned” way without evoking that whole racist past.
And there was (and is) far more to that racist past than just commodifying human beings. Comparing PoC to animals was, and is, also specifically intended to dehumanize. Human beings do not “breed”; humans “make families”. Human males are “men”, not “bucks”. Young humans are “children”, not “porch monkeys”. There is no purpose for this kind of language other than to humiliate, weaken, and silence the people to whom it is applied. Slavery has existed throughout human history in any number of cultures; many of those cultures found ways to commodify people without denying their very existence as human beings. If the racists who compared us to animals just wanted to commodify us, they wouldn’t need this kind of language.
Not that things have changed much, since the days of slavery. If you’re feeling strong-stomached, ask ABW to share with you some of the crap that’s in her moderation queue right now — the Stormfront nuts are still sending hate mail, and trust me, they’re chock full of “animal” and animal analogies used as a weapon.
Don’t forget to thank white people for manufacturing a bunch of stupid TV and movie stereotypes about black and brown people, for their own entertainment and to perpetuate their own sense of entitlement and superiority.
Hi, white people? I have an idea. It’s kind of crazy, but, hey, I’m wacky that way.
Let’s pretend, just for moment, that we are all rational, responsible adults, rather than children throwing temper tantrums. Let’s act as we have the ability to take responsibility for our actions. (Yes, our current actions, i.e. what we’re doing right now.) Let’s all acknowledge that we live in, benefit from, and participate in a system of racism, white privilege, and white supremacy.
Let’s act aware and intelligent and recognize the atrocities that came before we were born, and how they effect the atrocities that we are currently benefiting from and causing.
Let’s step away from the “I am a special snowflake, me, me, me!” mentality. Let’s try actually listening to people of color, who might actually know a thing or two about how racism affects them.
Let’s not tell people of color how they should be fighting racism. Let’s -really- not tell people of color that they’re not doing enough.
Could we try that? Just for a little while? (Or how about forever?)
I simply want to convey my thanks to the many thoughtful contributors to this discussion. There are a few morons here, but they serve as an excellent foil for the far more people with passion and compassion and incisive criticism and broad knowledge. I’m a whitejewishgirl of privilege who is listening and learning and reflecting.
Pat Buchanan is a complete ass.
There would be far fewer defensive replies from white people if this post were titled, “Thank-you, Pat Buchanan.” It is hard for me, as an individual white person, to take on all of the blame for every historical atrocity ever committed by a white person.
If I personally had denied someone a job because of their race, or I personally had denied someone a home loan, or I personally had called someone a racist name, or lynched someone, or enslaved someone, or written legislation that oppressed someone, I guess I would feel that I deserved your anger.
But if one white person angers you, why do you direct that anger towards all white people? I read your other post, and I really want to be an ally to your cause, but when I read this post I wasn’t really sure I would be welcome.
I get the vibe that my whiteness is much more significant to you than any of my personal opinions or actions.
Camille –
In response to a comment you made way up earlier…
Those “fresh faced white kids” who are part of the teach for america program really do want to help. You don’t think they are helping? The fact that they are white is so disgusting to you that you can’t even appreciate that they’re trying to be a part of the solution?
It seems to me that, in your eyes, no white person could ever do anything that would offset the “evil” of his or her whiteness.
What about Bono? Are you angry at Bono? Do you think his contributions are just an attempt to make the underprivileged “less of a threat?”
Thank you, my beloved ancestors, for appropriating huge advantages in technology from POC (ie. Mathermatics and gunpowder) and then inventing a few things later on. Thank you for using those late inventions as “proof” of white superiority and POC uselessness.
Thank you for promising freedom without any intention of delivering it.
Thank you for writing books about white people, for white people. Thank you making white the default. Thank you for the fact that every text I have ever studied has been written or directed by a white person.
Thank you, my brethren, for saying “that we’ve achieved equality now” and pretending that racism doesn’t exist.
AWB, as I read your post and the comments, I belatedly realised that it’s you that should receive genuine thanks.
Thank you for being brave enough to post this.
Thank you for continuing to post, even with the poison that spews from every fool who wanders past, erroneously believing they have something new to say.
Thank you for being a wonderful and articulate voice, even when faced with gross bigotry.
hellonhairylegs:
Luvin’ that name! ;-D
Olympia:
If you truly wish to be a an ally, please remember this very important lesson:
It’s not about you.
Also, even though you personally may not have committed any overt acts of racism, you, as a white woman, benefit from a racist system. That does not make you a bad person or a racist (IMO). However, if you deny your privilege and do not attempt to, at least, listen constructively to those who don’t have your privilege then yes, IMO, it does make you racist.
“There would be far fewer defensive replies from white people if this post were titled, “Thank-you, Pat Buchanan.””
Nope, no there wouldn’t. There really would not. People are reacting to this post and its content because a black woman had the nerve to write it. It is a self-serving and transparent lie to claim differently.
Also, it is obviously not hard for you to take on the blame of every evil white person in history – it’s not even on the table as something for you to do or not do in the first place, so saying it’s hard for you to do is absurd and off topic.
Angel H. – I say again – I goddamn love you.
Also – second what nojojo said at 5:24pm yesterday.
**waves at JoanKelly…
OT, but:
We really need to share Crazy Aunt stories! :-D
There would be far fewer defensive replies from white people if this post were titled, “Thank-you, Pat Buchanan.”
But Pat Buchanan didn’t say “black people should thank me”, he said that black people should thank white people. So “Thank-you Pat Buchanan” would have made no sense as a post title.
It is hard for me, as an individual white person, to take on all of the blame for every historical atrocity ever committed by a white person.
Who’s asking you to? Just deal with the privilege you get now and start looking for ways to address ongoing issues. Don’t bother taking the blame for ongoing prejudice and the privilege you get: no one’s claiming that you did it personally. Just acknowledge it and work on it.
If I personally had denied someone a job because of their race, or I personally had denied someone a home loan, or I personally had called someone a racist name, or lynched someone, or enslaved someone, or written legislation that oppressed someone, I guess I would feel that I deserved your anger.
You may never have denied someone a job or a home loan or called someone a racist name, etc. But you’ve gotten white privilege in small and large ways: It’s probably easier for you to get a loan than if you were black. You probably grew up in a better neighborhood with a better school than you would have if you were black (assuming no change in your economic status). If you experimented with illegal behavior as a teen (smoking pot, shoplifting, buying beer, trespassing, etc) and got caught, you probably got off easier than you would have if you were black. Security personnel from airport screeners to beat cops probably look at you less suspiciously than they would if you were black (or, especially now, Middle Eastern). And so on. Other people’s prejudices are not your fault, but you do benefit from their prejudices and acknowledging that is a more productive response than getting defensive about how you personally have never called anyone a nasty name.
Long-time reader, first-time poster!
Thank you, ABW for this awesome, awesome post and thank you to many of the commenters (especially Camille, nojojojo and Angel H) for your thoughtful comments. I know that I have a long way to go but I feel like reading this post and the comments has helped me take a few more steps in dealing with my “-isms”– racism, classism, sexism….
I had to comment on this post because yesterday I was walking through a parking lot and found, parked next to my little Toyota, a truck with a bumper sticker that read “Never apologize for being white.” So thank you, white people, for taking pride in your racism and being so proactive as to display it on bumper stickers.
Wow!
The courage and honesty of this site usually leaves me
speechless. I come here to listen.
But some of the ‘but it’s not me and how dare you accuse
me of racism’ drivel is so wearying in it’s unintelligent
banality that I’d like to respond.
Thank you ABW for your blog and for tolerating this discussion. The knee-jerk denials are so painful I find it hard to read and I’m white.
I want to thank my black nieces and my black sister-in-law.
Thank you for your tears when your teacher told you were black and stupid and wasn’t fired until her white father freaked out.
Thank you for your silence when the guy said he wanted mocha, grabbed your ass at a coffee shop and wasn’t thrown out until your white aunt freaked out.
Thank you for your bafflement when your white college professor gave you a poor mark for being too political and emotional until your white friend showed you how to write what they wanted to hear.
Thank you for your tolerance of the white store security guy following you around until he realized you were with me.
Thank you for your painful confusion when a little white girl wasn’t allowed to play with you any more.
Thank you for your fear when customs locked you all in a room for six hours and you missed your flight because of racial profiling.
Thank you for asking me to buy you bleach for your skin because you wanted to be white.
Thank you for leaving the room when your white Grandpa asked you why black people didn’t work harder.
Thank you for listening politely to your Mother-in-laws vehement statement that it was ridiculous that black people thought O.J.might be innocent.
Thank you for lowering your head and avoiding the stares at the white holiday resort you went to with your family.
Thank you for allowing the aids test from the white doctor every check-up at the clinic.
Thank you for submitting to an identity check by the white cop outside the club when we went for a drink.
Thank you for your futility in the face of ‘well you can dance because you’re black’ when you’d studied and trained hard for years for your performances.
Thank you for your isolation and hurt when you found out a lot of your white friends only wanted someone from the hood to hang with.
And finally thank you for hiding the despair in your heart when your white and liberal extended family ignores you at gatherings because you’re different and they’re uncomfortable and they don’t know what to say to a black person.
So to all the members of my race out there who won’t understand their own white privilege or their own male privilege:
Read and listen to this blog. We’re privileged to be here. If you’ve just GOT to say something then go out and use your words to the cop harassing the guy next to you in line and the asshole drunk red-neck at the bar calling someone a nigger. And challenge the friend that thinks it’s funny to call a black woman a whore and the co-worker telling stupid and hateful jokes in the office. Put your neck on the line with words out there where it counts. Put your safety on the line so somebody else doesn’t have to everyday, everywhere, all the time.
Andre’a:
Thank YOU for the awesome post.
Olympia,
Welcome to racism. There is a very tangible irony in ABW’s post. Pat Buchanan decided to effectively blame all black people for every lapse or failure committed by a black person. Not only that, he also suggested that those black people should thank all American whites for giving them such a wonderful country to live in — so please note that the first person in this exchange to hold you accountable for the mass actions of your race was Pat, not ABW.
Just curious — did you visit Pat Buchanan’s site and complain to him about his broad-brush painting? It’s hard for you to take the blame for every atrocity; this is understandable. But did you mind that Pat effectively gave you, personally, the credit for every good thing America has done? Are you, personally, the person we should be thanking for, oh, skyscrapers? Polyester? Traffic lights? Oh, wait, sorry, that was one of us.
Re: the rest of your comments, I would strongly suggest that you do some reading about white privilege. Start here, or if that’s too much work, at least try this.
The burning, hateful reaction of so many white people (and even just the mild defensiveness of many others) to this thread has got me thinking. I don’t know, ABW, if the mass of complaints that “you’re too ANGRY to sound reasonable” has given you pause at all, but I know that for me it would have. In spite of knowing the post to be justified, on some level deep inside it would make me second-guess myself. It would make me worry that maybe I shouldn’t be so blunt.
Don’t.
I’m saying this as someone whose initial reaction to the Thank You post (if I am being totally honest) was a prickling of defensiveness.
On an emotional level, as a white woman who doesn’t experience racism personally, the clearest way for me to “see” what is happening here is through my own experiences with sexism. There’s always this intense pressure NOT to complain. And when I do speak up, there is the pressure not to express myself in a way that might offend. It’s a horrible kind of silencing. The effort of suppressing one’s rage becomes an unbearable weight. I think it slowly kills a person. I wonder if you feel that kind of weight, too (I suspect everybody who is the victim of some kind of –ism does).
Because you have people like those upthread telling you that you are too angry, that you have to be less aggressive if you want people to listen, the pressure is immense.
So, I don’t know whether you’re actually feeling any doubt or vague uncertainties about this, but just in case you are, as a white person whose initial reaction was defensiveness, I’m asking you not to *ever* feel the need to minimize your rage in order to accommodate us. Because that’s wrong. I think it’s soul-killing to force yourself to hide the fury you feel just so people like me don’t get uncomfortable in our white skins. It’s horrible of people even to ask it. You probably don’t need me to tell you that, but I figured I’d say it anyway only because I know that I would be feeling little pricklings of doubt after such an outpouring.
And to all you white people who are asking ABW to change her tone: bullshit. To ask somebody to swallow their anger and be “nicer” because it makes YOU uncomfortable about YOUR privilege is wrong. It’s not “nice” to experience racism, and pretending that the brutal, horrible, rage-inducing wrongness of it can be sanitized and minimized into something palatable for YOU is a damn lie.
Get over it. Reexamine yourself and ask why you aren’t angry, too. Because there’s a world of experiences there that make up the difference, and that’s what you need to start understanding.
OT to Angel – I started Crazy Aunt Tag on my site.
Amen. Amen. This post is so long overdue.
People without color will never get it. They never can. They will cry about how they aren’t responsible for slavery, etc. I’m not blaming them for that. They are responsible for every action they make today.
I challenge people without color to live on a salary that is 40 percent less than what they make now, or what a black man with equal education gets.
I challenge people without color to understand how unfair it is to not only earn less, but to be forced to live in an unsavory area because the people without color don’t want a black man in their community.
I challenge a person without color to not ask the black man in your college class if he got there on a basketball scholarship or ask him “how much he got from Uncle Sam to come here.”
I challenge people without color to be the daily victim of racial profiling, with stares from customers at a store or being followed by a security guard.
I challenge people without color to think about their fellow human beings instead of being caught up in their bubble of contention.
I challenge people without color to not get upset when they are told that they can never understand racism and that they are instinctively and by virtue of birth more privileged than any one group in the world.
This is how the world would be for me: All people without color would be second-class citizens who are granted aid at the whim of the strong black community. People without color would be forced to sweep the parking lot at Wendys or clean the toilets at the all-black scholl district (where my children would happily drop their pants to squat on the floor of the hallway for you to clean up). People without color would be humiliated by ignorant comments about their backgrounds, and black people would say “I don’t mean to offend, but…”
The community would be made up of strong black men and women who are raising their children together to be strong black young adults. (In case you don’t know, black families are not ALL broken, but thanks for the stereotype.)
People without color in movies would be protrayed as stupid white people, because that is truly what they are.
In a perfect world, people without color would be forced to give me all their wealth and the crumbs would be left for them and their tribe of kids without color.
That’s why I’m pissed off. But you people without color won’t ever get it cause you don’t want to take off them blinders and see the rest of the world. It isn’t all about you, whitey.
One more thing. To those token people without color who want to understand black plight, stop trying. You will never get it. You can post all the good thoughts and “sorries” that you want, but you’ll evenutally get bored and forget about it. It will be “too hard” to understand fully. It will wear you down. Welcome to my world. Only I can’t take a break from the fight.
Okay, there’s no way in hell anyone is going to read this at this point, but:
You forgot to thank us for sundown towns and driving black families off their land with no compensation.
I’m about as white/European mutt as they come, and I don’t see a damn thing wrong with your tone.
I’m a young white woman who got linked here, not really a follower of the blog or, I’m sorry to say, many of the issues involved here. Which I know is probably the biggest form of privilege there is, the ability to exclude yourself from a discussion like this because it doesn’t affect you or anyone you directly know.
I’m not about to write Buchanan about his statements any more than I would his statements about women, gays, politics, or any other number of his stances that offend me; it’s not about to change his mind. But I do want to say that I get what you mean by the post and I’m amazed that anyone with even a remote knowledge of history could say what he did with a straight face and clear conscience. Reverend Wright says angry, offensive, divisive things and he’s called crazy. Buchanan says angry, offensive, divisive things, and he’s a syndicated columnist. That’s privilege, too.
If it hasn’t been brought up already (this thread is huge), I’d like to thank my ancestors for raping black women at their leisure and lynching black men for the imagined rape of white women. And my contemporaries, for having the gall to only focus on this when a famous white man of history became involved in a (hypocritical) sex scandal over the same. We don’t know anything about Sally Hemmings, or whether she was with Thomas Jefferson willingly, but considering her position I highly doubt any full consent or love was involved. The fact that it’s become a source of *romantic fiction* on a few occasions makes me ill.
Drew:
“I challenge a person without color to not ask the black man in your college class if he got there on a basketball scholarship or ask him “how much he got from Uncle Sam to come here.”
I’m in one of the most racially diverse campuses in the United States, majoring in one of the most statistically diverse majors (social work), and I could honestly care less how anyone was admitted. The thought has never crossed my mind. I have a lot more to think about than the business of other people or what that supposedly represents about their entire race. I’m sure there are plenty of people who have been that offensive (covertly or overtly), I’m sure political punditry etc. etc. has said all kinds of prejudicial crap to that effect; you just seem to be addressing all white people as a collective whole, so I want to refute that one point.
The other things you brought up, I know, are things a lot of black people experience that I’ve never experienced and can never personally understand. I don’t have any quarrel with that at all.
“To those token people without color who want to understand black plight, stop trying. You will never get it. You can post all the good thoughts and “sorries” that you want, but you’ll evenutally get bored and forget about it. It will be “too hard” to understand fully.”
It’s your experience; I don’t think I could ever claim to understand it. I don’t think I’d even understand the experience of another white Jewish-Italian bisexual 22 year old middle-class college-educated female. I’m just not exactly sure what you’re saying here – we’ll never understand, but we’re too shallow to try? Is it possible or isn’t it? To understand a prejudice I’ll never experience is definitely impossible, but trying to empathize, in my opinion, is not. If it’s offensive or condescending for me to do that, somehow, then please tell me what you think I’m supposed to do instead.
Drew,
I understand your bitterness — I’ve been there — but I do not and cannot allow myself to believe that it’s impossible for white people to understand racism, and begin working against it. For one thing, I’ve seen and met too many allies who show that understanding, and are doing what they can to spread it. For another thing — good grief, we’re not that alien or incomprehensible. We’re just people, reacting in a perfectly natural way to historical trauma and constant stress. I firmly believe that every human being has the capacity to understand his/her fellow human beings, regardless of background or circumstance. Whether they use that capacity is a whole other matter — but I believe it’s possible. If I didn’t believe that, I would have given up on fighting racism a long time ago.
there are a lot of comments here but i do not know if anyone mentioned –
that the antipoverty programs were begun when poverty was overwhelmingly a white phenomenon in America- that poverty has become a problem perceived and increasingly in reality a POC problem after 50 years of these programs-would attest to the continuing problem of racism in America particularly in applied social policy
mmm. The tribe thing in Africa is interesting–Europeans weren’t just setting up tribe against tribe, but creating tribes where there weren’t by wanting to only deal with men, more specifically the men in charge, regardless of how a group was set up. And, of course, favoring those groups that acted more like Europeans, farming valued over pastoralism over foraging. And then, after privileging certain groups for so long, having an exit strategy that consisted of ‘leave,’ without attempting work out a balance of power, resulting in violence as the people work it out themselves.
Nojojojo/Drew/Everyone else
If I may join this conversation, humbly, there is truth to what Drew says. As a white person, I will not understand firsthand what it feels like to experience racism. Ever.
As a woman, I understand the experience of oppression; I understand what it is like to earn less and to experience violence (for example). But I have not and will not ever be pulled over by the police “just because”. As Drew points out, I will not be asked if I attended university on a sports scholarship.
And Drew is right that white allies have a choice to walk away at any time – and many of us do. (I would say that we all do, at some point or another).
Just as I am hopeful that men will share my fight against sexism, I share nojojojo’s optimism that anti-racist allies will support People of Colour and Aboriginals in their fight against racist oppression. But when we do, we must be willing to hear the harsh criticism that our class – and we ourselves as individuals – have earned.
This is a sobering list.
I’d like to address this one comment of Olympia’s:
Those “fresh faced white kids” who are part of the teach for america program really do want to help. You don’t think they are helping?
I know for a fact that they really do want to help. I also know that TFA has been roundly criticized by educators for putting the most untrained, inexperienced, and therefore the most ineffective teachers in the places of greatest need. I know, in addition, of White TFA kids who couldn’t take it in the inner city and quit. (Which sends what kind of message to those kids?)
So, in answer to your second question, whether or not they are actually helping would have to be measured on a case-by-case basis. I’m sure they’re trying to help. I’m not convinced at all that they are succeeding.
Thank you white people (and I am partly one of “you people” ;-)) — as represented here by Adam Zeigler (e.g., “I don’t understand why you, ABW, are so angry”)– for NEVER READING ANYTHING ANYONE ELSE HAS SAID PRIOR TO OPENING YOUR MOUTH.
Thank you for thinking that whatever you have to say on a subject is much more important than what anyone else has to say.
*retches at the white male privilege*
*recovers*
I do believe the reason the epithet of “so angry” is leveled so frequently is that repression of passion and emotion is a Puritan throwback and therefore an inherent element of the dominant American culture.
That is to say that being angry per se is not inherently wrong, but it’s represented as “wrong” in majority white culture because it’s “just not the way we do things around here”.
But that’s an entirely different discussion that I don’t have time for today.
So thank you ABW for giving “these types of people” (once again, I kid, but not really) an opportunity to come out and show themselves, so that people who claim that “racism doesn’t really exist anymore” can see the exent to which they are truly, horrifically misinformed.
I have to respectfully diagree with nojojojo’s comment.
I feel that the imminent election of brother Barack Obama, something that strikes fear in the hearts of those without color, is our most important stride forward to date.
I also feel that people without color, like those who have commented here, are scared sh*tless and are trying to guise their fear by attempting to rally with us.
Inherently, no people without color can truly understand our situation. It’s far too easy to fall back into their own lives and forget about our fights. They can feel they’ve done well for a few moments. It’s fleeting at best.
Racism will only be stopped when black women and men are treated far better than those people without color who oppress us. The only way to be victorious is to hold the power in this nation.
Our day is almost here. Thank you, Barack Obama. His victory will provide the presence of black faces, more so than the pale ones that flank us now.
Plainsfeminist:
Thank-you for acknowleging that caring white people do exist. That brought a big smile to my face and helped me feel that maybe there is room for me on this site. Thank-you.
Dianne, Angel H. and Nojojojo:
There is a difference between benefiting from white privilege and perpetuating its existance. I have never ever claimed not to have white privilege.
JoanKelly, Angel H:
Ponder this conversation:
Goose: Ducks listen to lots of country music.
Duck: I don’t like to listen to country music…
Goose: You always make this about you.
I’m white. I can’t stop being white. Statements about white people are about me.
Nojojojo: It’s impossible for me to comment on Pat’s site because comments have been closed for it. But trust me – I am on your side, here. I make comments on this site not to be hostile, but rather to engage in a discussion and try to help find common ground. I was a little sad at your comment about the innovations of “one of us.” Do we have to make “us v. them” equal to “black v. white”? I hate to see that. I want the “them” to be those opposed to equality and justice. I don’t want to be considered a “them” just because I’m white.
Then stop making it such and look for a damn email address on the blog or post in the forum.
That doesn’t go just for you but anyone else who uses an excuse about the comments being turned off.
And thank you white people for the “common ground” and “both sides are wrong” and “everybody is a little bit racist”* approach, among others like it, that only tends to serve in throwing your weight behind the status quo.
That’s directed towards you and anyone else. There. =)
*if your understanding/answer of the situation relies on a song from Avenue Q–fuck off
Olympia –
You really need to do some catching up on the basics. What you’re doing is exhibiting a textbook white-person response to people of color talking about racism. There are Required Reading links on this site – use them. You may feel a bit silly once you realize what you’ve been doing, but we’ll be happy to have you back as an ally once you realize how you sounded coming to the defense of white people.
Really.
Now stop trying to derail this thread, please.
Thank you white people for being our friends and family conditional on us never talking about racism that we experience or identifying ourselves as different from you!
Thank you, our white parents and grandparents, aunts and uncles, for never teaching us, your children of color, that racism existed, because it didn’t exist for *YOU*! It was great having to learn about it ourselves because you wouldn’t talk about it.
Thank you, white people, for permeating the English language with racist phrases and for always equating darkness with badness!
Thanks for always blathering on about your tans!
And THANK you, white people, for stealing babies of color from their homelands because you’re going to give them a better life.
We are all creatures living within historical context. My white ancestors were oppressed in their societies. I am Irish on one side-talk about your brutally oppressed people, and Belo Russian and Ukrainian on the other. My grandmother was from a family of Bolsheviks and fled her home and family, alone, at the age of 12 to escape arrest by the Czarist police. My family and some family friends were persecuted by McCarthy in the 1950s. It is our human challenge to rise above the limits that we were born into.
I am fortunate to be privileged and white yet within the confines of my individual circumstances I have suffered injustices. One instance of this is that I have a club foot and was teased, taunted and tortured as a child because of that. I grew up in a family with emotionally abusive patterns and I know how hard it can be to try to create positive functionalities when those negative attitudes have been internalized, institutionalized, repeated and rewarded. Each individual must struggle with their own demons, both personal and societal. These are usually mixed; it is often difficult to discern where the boundaries truly lie.
I try to live an ethical life. One exampIe of this is that I stopped eating meat over 30 years ago, during the oil crisis of the 1970’s. My motivation was because meat production is petrochemical and resource intensive; I thought we were going to go to war in the Middle East over oil. And I was right!
As an individual there is little I can do about injustices others face-I have enough bs that I an experiencing in my own situation that I can only choose certain things to work on. I happen to be an air advocate and work to raise awareness and try to clean the air but it is not something that seems to improve for many complex reasons. Here in Houston we all suffer from air pollution. One of the great ironies is that although greatest concentrations of air toxics are in the ship channel/industrial area, which is on the east side of town, the worst ozone is, because of the complex air patterns and the nature of ozone formation, on the west side of town in the wealthy white neighborhoods. And few of these people have any conception of the danger. Weird, isn’t it? The government and the big companies are so corrupt; children of all races are being poisoned.
I wish I could bring insight or clarity to the racial divide, yet I do believe that the country has progressed and I believe that progress will continue. Just as I know some progress is being made on the air issue, although it is clearly inadequate, it appears to me some progress is being made on the racial issue. I know that overt racism is much less acceptable than it once was. However good feelings are, at best, a bitter substitute for true progress.
As to being angry: good for you. Use your anger to energize and focus your commitment. I find the clarity of anger brings insight. Stop the stupid war on drugs, the greatest oppressor of blacks today. Drugs should be a medical issue, not a criminal one.
I also think that we should have slavery reparations in the form of educational vouchers and home and health care subsidies. I read somewhere that the subprime mortgage mess was the single greatest loss of black wealth, through the stripping of the value of home equity, in the history of America. Did you know that the CEO of Country Wide Mortgage company, which started the meltdown, made over half a billion in salary? No wonder they ran out of money to service and renegotiate their loans.
When I read my Bible I find that many of the most effective prophets were angry. Sometimes appropriate anger is the most loving response that an individual may have. Certainly as a parent I know that children hate for their parents to be angry and it often motivates them to act appropriately. Sometimes it is their easiest excuse to do the right thing. I cannot do that: my parents would kill me. I feel so sorry for all the Lakewood teens, as I do for all our troubled youth, some dysfunctional parenting is at work there.
One thing more: I like Obama but I think that Hillary is more electable. I live in a very Jewish neighborhood and there is a lot of fear in this community. I was personally very shocked when I went to the local caucuses and talked with many of my fellow Hillary delegates. A surprisingly large number prefer McCain to Obama and say they will vote for McCain if Hillary is not the nominee. Obama will have to reach out to them if he wins the nomination so he can win in the general.
I pray for peace. God bless and keep us all.
MM
“And THANK you, white people, for stealing babies of color from their homelands because you’re going to give them a better life.”
All right, this one I have to ask about. I mean, baby girls in China have been quite literally thrown into dumpsters or destroyed in various ways. Orphanages are full of them because their parents have abandoned them:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D04E0DD1031F933A05753C1A961958260
And you are saying adoption of such children is bad…? Why? My mother was adopted from a Korean orphanage by a white family. I really don’t know what her fate would have been had she been left in Korea, but if it’s anything like so many of those girls in Chinese orphanages… I dare say that she (and I, and all her children) are much better off right here.
From what I understand, transnational adoption is fraught with many issues — and this is from the viewpoint of the adoptees. Not all, I’m sure, but there are apparently many white folks who adopt kids from other countries and treat them like some exotic toy, or try to be ‘colorblind” in raising them 9with all the attending stupid), or end up making them feel like aliens in their own home because they’re treated differently from the other white kids in the house.
I am not as up on this issue as I could be, but I’ve read some blog posts by adoptees of color about their experience that truly chills me. gah.
Not to mention the whole Lost Generation issue in Australia.
“I am not as up on this issue as I could be, but I’ve read some blog posts by adoptees of color about their experience that truly chills me.”
Well I am sorry to hear that. But I do think it’s better to end up alienated in a colorblind house than dead in a dumpster. My grandmother is one of those problematic adopters you refer to — she should have treated my mother a lot better. But in spite of that, we are lucky where we are when compared to what might have been the alternative.
So maybe it just depends an the adopter and the situation the baby is coming from. I mean the alternative — to not adopt babies that need adoption just because they are a different color — seems a whole lot worse to me.
Forgot to add: I think the Lost Generation is a very different issue — I mean, that actually *is* stealing and forced removal of kids and all that imperialistic BS that has been destroying people around the world forever.
When I think of “adoption” I think of the baby girls being dropped into wells or left to the not-so-tender-care of many orphanages. I think of my mother being unwanted in an orphanage. And I think taking children out of that situation *is* giving them a better life. Or at least, it can be, if the parents are willing to be decent parents and not treat the children badly. So I wouldn’t dismiss it wholesale as an evil perpetuated by white people. I don’t think that adoption itself is inherently wrong or should be discouraged so long as the alternative for truly unwanted children really is… well, not much.
Olympia, what you don’t get is when you woke up this morning, you woke up to an inherently privileged place where you didn’t have to worry about your skin color. Writing here is not going to purge your soul for the privileged life you have been given. No cute little ditties about ducks and geese are going to stop the fact that you “think” you are colorblind, but in reality, you thank your lucky stars that you don’t have sites like this to vent your frustrations about life.
The only way for you to consider being an ally is to get down into the fight every single, solitary day of your life. Even then it won’t be enough cause you’ll still go home to your pretty white neighborhood and lay your head down without fear. You wear this “cause” like a weekend activity. I’m not convinced that you could ever be an ally.
Go back to playing for your token causes now, but take your sympathy elsewhere.
I also feel that people without color, like those who have commented here, are scared sh*tless and are trying to guise their fear by attempting to rally with us.
I disagree with that, not only based on the white Obama supporters I know, but because it would be a wildly ineffective way of dealing with being scared shitless. If white Obama supporters really were running scared, all they would have to do would have been to throw their support behind Hillary back when the two candidates were running neck and neck.
Well I am sorry to hear that. But I do think it’s better to end up alienated in a colorblind house than dead in a dumpster.
I’m not so sure those are the only two choices, and it seems really over-the-top to offer them up as a dichotomy as if individuals within a country can’t adopt children within that country.
It also ignores that there are children in the US “dropped off at orphanages” or otherwise in the foster system who could use some of that love. They’re of color, too; just apparently not of the RUGHT color for whatever the white adopters want.
There is some evidence that countries with a lot of adoption use it as a market, essentially taking children from mothers and fathers who love them but are having difficulty supporting them and selling them to white people. Even if this can’t be proven, I think – in good conscience – taking care to not treat infants as commodities is important, and the racial and colonialization dynamics of the situation should be viewed in a nuanced way allowing for a plurality of experiences instead of “alive” and “dead in a dumpster”.
Hear hear, Deoridhe.
“There is some evidence that countries with a lot of adoption use it as a market, essentially taking children from mothers and fathers who love them but are having difficulty supporting them and selling them to white people. Even if this can’t be proven, I think – in good conscience – taking care to not treat infants as commodities is important, and the racial and colonialization dynamics of the situation should be viewed in a nuanced way allowing for a plurality of experiences”
Deoridhe,
I agree with all that. The point I was making is that I don’t think you can flat out say that adoption is “stealing,” or wrong, because like I have said my mother was adopted from Korea by a white family. And we (my family) are very grateful for the good life we got. It is better than what she would have had — this is what she has told me. I am sure there are adopted children who have terrible experiences, but I also know there are good and loving families who do not view the children as commodities and who offer them chances they would never have had (as happened with my mother). As cliche as that sounds, my family is living it.
Obviously there are flaws with adoption, just as with foster care and everything else in this world. Stealing children from poor parents is wrong, pure and simple, and it (sadly) wouldn’t surprise me at all if it were true. It’s not an issue where one side is always good or bad; there’s plenty of gray area.
But basically, as a child in a family born out adoption from Korea, I disagree with Katie’s characterization of adoption as “stealing” babies from another country. It can be a bad thing; but it can also bring great good to people, and I do not think that should be dismissed.
I agree with all that. The point I was making is that I don’t think you can flat out say that adoption is “stealing,” or wrong, because like I have said my mother was adopted from Korea by a white family.
Except no one said all white adoption of foreign babies is all wrong.
The original statement was: “And THANK you, white people, for stealing babies of color from their homelands because you’re going to give them a better life.”
You have admitted there were cases where babies were stolen, like the lost generation. You’ve also agreed with my statement that babies were likely stolen from korean families by korean people out to make a buck. Therefore, I don’t see why you objected to the first statement by claiming the choices were be adopted by white people or die in a dumpster.
This is not a thread for affirmation of the good things white people inadvertantly achieved through the use and colonialization of other people. In fact, given the inspiration for this thread, that is what is EXPRESSLY not welcome.
Read what Pat Buchanan said again about how black people should be grateful for all white people have done for them, then think about coming into this thread and claiming that the choice for foreing, usually of color babies is between being pitied by white people who don’t bother to learn about the nuances of colonialization and race relations, and dying in a dumpster.
“Therefore, I don’t see why you objected to the first statement by claiming the choices were be adopted by white people or die in a dumpster.”
I never said those were the only choices. What I said is, “But I do think it’s better to end up alienated in a colorblind house than dead in a dumpster.” This was a *reference* to the article I linked to in the post above, which describes the tossing out of dead babies into a dumpster. Obviously there are a lot more choices than that.
Now as to this:
“Except no one said all white adoption of foreign babies is all wrong.”
This is my misunderstanding, I think. I read: “And THANK you, white people, for stealing babies of color from their homelands because you’re going to give them a better life” as a reference to adoption. And if it IS about adoption, then I disagree with it. But if it’s strictly about the actual stealing of babies then I don’t disagree at all; in that case I misread it, and apologize for that. I’m not sure if you (Katie) are/were referring to the act of adoption itself as a kind of stealing or if you were referring specifically to actual instances of theft, a la Lost Generation. If I misread you, I am sorry. My bad.
This is my misunderstanding, I think. I read: “And THANK you, white people, for stealing babies of color from their homelands because you’re going to give them a better life” as a reference to adoption. And if it IS about adoption, then I disagree with it.
Okay, I’m confused. I thought you said you agreed with my statement about, for example, Korean babies being taken from their parents who want them and given to white women under the guise of adoption.
You also didn’t address the larger framework. The taking of foreign, non-white babies is increasinly becoming a status symbol via a few highly publicised adoptions. The downsides of this can be seen in, for example, the European couple who adopted an Asian (I think Korean) infant, then abandoned her in China as “not their real child” because they started having problems with her.
The downsides can also be seen in overall colonialization, in the idea that adopted infants should be so grateful that they can’t ever say anything bad about either their parents or the US because they were saved from some horrible fate, as if being colored and discriminated against while also being told that you can’t possibly be because your parents don’t see color ISN’T a horrible fate.
Yes, some adoption is of people being taken from places where they were loved and wanted (i.e. stolen) and given to white people who pay money for them. Making adoption into some golden, unable to be objected to or even crituqed item – ESPECIALLY in a thread where the main topic is that someone attempted to make slavery into something that blacks should be grateful for, is really inappropriate.
“Making adoption into some golden, unable to be objected to or even crituqed item”
Uh, when did I do this? I NEVER said adoption was all golden or unobjectionable. I said: “Obviously there are flaws with adoption, just as with foster care and everything else in this world. Stealing children from poor parents is wrong, pure and simple… It’s not an issue where one side is always good or bad; there’s plenty of gray area. It can be a bad thing; but it can also bring great good to people, and I do not think that should be dismissed.”
So critique it? Yes. There are obviously huge flaws with the process. But as someone who benefited from it? As the child of a Korean woman who was adopted? Of course I am going to speak up and point out that it’s not all bad. I have personal experience directly relevant to this topic, so I gave my take. Forgive me if said experience doesn’t conform to the picture you are painting.
However, I do think this has gone on long enough to be derailing, so if you want to argue it further I’ll be posting my replies in the “open thread” from now on.
If I may comment and ask – I teach Sociology at a University and am amazed at how much resistance to the topic of race and persistent racially inequality is received. Yes, there are the comments about ‘my ancestors didn’t enslave anyone’ (how they know that is uncertain), and ‘what about all of the other races,’ as well as’ why can’t we just turn the page?’ It is once again the matter of refusing to acknowledge (or even dismissing) the reality of racial inequality that is one of the most powerful forms of racism itself. It is also, to me, the most dangerous form and the way that is is maintained.
I have benefited from many of your responses here and would like to ask, how can I clearly get this message across in a University setting to those (many of whom have written here) who do not want to acknowledge this exists anymore?
Thank you!
I loved this post, can I add a line? Please?
“Thank you White People for giving every man, woman and child on this planet a one-way ticket straight to Hell, in this life and the next”
It feels good to give thanks.
Thank-you for acknowleging that caring white people do exist. That brought a big smile to my face and helped me feel that maybe there is room for me on this site. Thank-you.
Olympia,
I’m glad that my comment made you feel comfortable. Here’s the thing: I don’t think anyone here – and I haven’t read through every single comment, so I could be wrong, but I don’t think so – is arguing that caring White people do not exist. My understanding is that the point of the thread is really about noticing and giving voice to racism – not about recognizing allies or making us feel comfortable.
I think, if you see “White people…” and assume that means you, then you need to not take it so personally. Maybe no one’s talking about you, you know? And please don’t say, “if you say White, it’s about me” – it just isn’t. And if you do see yourself reflected in these comments, then maybe there are some things you need to think about and change.
I don’t want to derail this thread and make it all about how White people feel about racism. Feel free to email me if you want to continue this discussion.
Thank you, white people, for jumping on WOC blogs and making it all about us.*
*I am white.
“(The Jews, funnily, don’t scream about anyone keeping them down. They just take their occassional genocide in stride and mosey along.)
…
In the meantime, I’ll be over here up to my elbows in shit, fighting to actually change this nation for the better.”
Okay, um…
I’ve just got an idea here.
Whatever it is you’re doing exactly – and I don’t doubt that it is substantial, hell, you’re probably the guy from Everclear or something you’re so significant in the Fight Against Hate – but I’m just wondering… whatever it is exactly that you’re doing, would you consider stopping?
Just wondering if it might help.
*I’m a white dude, but I’d hate for you to misconstrue my clarification of this fact as any kind of giving a shit w/r/t your thoughts on same.
Cheers.
“Thank you, white people, for jumping on WOC blogs and making it all about us.”
I’m seeing that phrase, ‘all about [you]’, handed out a lot in the comments here and I’m wondering if you can describe exactly what everyone means by it. It’s so general by itself that I’m not sure if I’m hearing its meaning right or not.
My first read of it was that it’s wrong for white people to talk about their own experiences with racism, or their own views and feelings on the subject (however wrong), when entering this kind of discussion. Of course it’s people of color that are the victims of racism, and you’re the ones who can decide whether racism is being perpetrated and what it means to you/your community. But unless white people express their own biases, fears, hopes, personal stories, even our own covertly racist thoughts – whether we realize they’re racist or not – then how is it a dialog?
I think it’s safe to say that most white people in this thread don’t WANT to be racist, don’t want to have these biases that build up in us or to benefit from racist systems, and that’s a big part of why so many of us are defensive. But how can we eliminate that in our own lives unless we talk about our experiences as individuals? (Not to mention that people are just naturally inclined to talk about themselves, and I don’t think that’s unique to the racism discussion.) Even if we’re completely off-base, to just be talking about it in more than a general, theoretical way is a start.
Or I could be getting all defensive over nothing and you mean this ‘well I grew up with NOTHING, I don’t benefit from privilege!’ stuff or something similar, which I agree is inappropriate and completely missing the point. Sorry for the tl;dr if so. :)
Kim, I think the point is that it’s wrong for white people to talk about their own experiences with racism – HERE, in this post. In response to a post like this one, white people talking about how they deal with privilege, how they see and deal with racism, even people who are strong allies, will only ever be about assuaging their guilt, making themselves feel better or looking for congratulations from racialized people – in short, a defense mechanism.
That being said, there is huge value in allies sharing their thoughts and challenges with each other, and with oppressed people – this just isn’t the forum. I believe ABM has a recent post called ‘Allies Talking’ that would be a better forum for this kind of thing.
Olympia,
I took the liberty of correcting your little parable:
Goose: It’s hard being a goose.
Duck 1: WHY DO YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO BRING SPECIES INTO EVERYTHING?! I ONLY SEE WHAT’S INSIDE A BIRD, NOT THE OUTSIDE! ONLY SPECIESTS SEPERATE BIRDS LIKE THAT! BESIDES, YOU GEESE GET EVERYTHING BECAUSE OF THOSE DAMN POND QUOTAS!! WE DUCKS GAVE YOU GEESE “CIVIL RIGHTS TO FLIGHT”, AND YOU STILL FUCKED EVERYTHING UP!
Goose: You just don’t understand how good you’ve got it because your a duck. You don’t know what it’s like.
Duck 2: Why are you being so mean to us ducks? I know about discrimination! I don’t call Geese ugly names or discriminate. It’s not my fault Geese have it so bad. STOP PICKING ON ME BECAUSE I’M A DUCK!!!!1111!!!eleventyeleven!!!!1!
Goose purposely flies in front of hunter’s gun out of frustration. FREE AT LAST! FREE AT LAST!
But what have you done with it besides whine about how mean we’re being to you?
Let’s do this slowly:
THIS
IS
NOT
ABOUT
YOU!
There are dozens of White people who read the OP and did not take offense because they could see the truth in it. They weren’t offended by it, because they know that, as allies who take the time to listen to the grievances of POC, the OP was not addressed to them specifically.
Let me ask you something: If you were in a crowded room, minding your own business, and someone you didn’t know called out “Hey bitch!”, would you turn around? I know I wouldn’t because I’m not anyone’s bitch. But, there are women out there who would jump up and throw a fit because a complete stranger called someone a bitch, and that woman assumed he was talking to her.
If you read the OP and the proceeding comments and, as a White person, you become offended, that’s not anybody’s problem but your own.
One more time, in slow motion please:
THIS
IS
NOT
ABOUT
YOU.