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	<title>Comments on: The Audacity of Bodily Autonomy</title>
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	<link>http://theangryblackwoman.com/2008/07/23/the-audacity-of-bodily-autonomy/</link>
	<description>Race, Politics, Gender, Sexuality, Anger</description>
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		<title>By: factorial</title>
		<link>http://theangryblackwoman.com/2008/07/23/the-audacity-of-bodily-autonomy/comment-page-1/#comment-7980</link>
		<dc:creator>factorial</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 17:27:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theangryblackwoman.wordpress.com/?p=416#comment-7980</guid>
		<description>miffedkit: there was a huge kerfluffle over this very issue in Portland, Oregon -- the teaching hospital (OHSU) regularly has (I would like to say &quot;had&quot; but I don&#039;t think this has been stopped) med students practice pelvic exams on unconscious women. It skeeved me the HELL out. My understanding is also that this was much more prevalent in women receiving care through the Oregon Health Plan (health insurance for low income families), and that there was possibly some kind of form one could sign to have this not happen (yeah, right) if you knew to ask for it. At the time, I knew someone working as a prenatal home visitor with many WOC, many from out of the country who had no access to translation services or any kind of advocate, who were receiving care at OHSU. The impression I got was that if a woman was uppity enough to demand nobody sexually assault her while she was unconscious that the level of care she received would suffer, and more than that, most of the women who would be facing this would probably not even know how to demand that it not happen.

Oh, and I&#039;m pretty sure this came to light when women were having a high rate of pelvic infections following surgery and someone(s) wondered what the hell was up with that. The thought of this makes me want to puke, and never go to the doctor again, and possibly become a vigilante.

In light of this, I think the tattoo is even more upsetting, because as many have pointed out it serves as a reminder that you really don&#039;t know what the hell some creep did to you while you were unconscious.

Bleah, remind me to never need surgery...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>miffedkit: there was a huge kerfluffle over this very issue in Portland, Oregon &#8212; the teaching hospital (OHSU) regularly has (I would like to say &#8220;had&#8221; but I don&#8217;t think this has been stopped) med students practice pelvic exams on unconscious women. It skeeved me the HELL out. My understanding is also that this was much more prevalent in women receiving care through the Oregon Health Plan (health insurance for low income families), and that there was possibly some kind of form one could sign to have this not happen (yeah, right) if you knew to ask for it. At the time, I knew someone working as a prenatal home visitor with many WOC, many from out of the country who had no access to translation services or any kind of advocate, who were receiving care at OHSU. The impression I got was that if a woman was uppity enough to demand nobody sexually assault her while she was unconscious that the level of care she received would suffer, and more than that, most of the women who would be facing this would probably not even know how to demand that it not happen.</p>
<p>Oh, and I&#8217;m pretty sure this came to light when women were having a high rate of pelvic infections following surgery and someone(s) wondered what the hell was up with that. The thought of this makes me want to puke, and never go to the doctor again, and possibly become a vigilante.</p>
<p>In light of this, I think the tattoo is even more upsetting, because as many have pointed out it serves as a reminder that you really don&#8217;t know what the hell some creep did to you while you were unconscious.</p>
<p>Bleah, remind me to never need surgery&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: MCKean</title>
		<link>http://theangryblackwoman.com/2008/07/23/the-audacity-of-bodily-autonomy/comment-page-1/#comment-7979</link>
		<dc:creator>MCKean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 22:26:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theangryblackwoman.wordpress.com/?p=416#comment-7979</guid>
		<description>He is a perfect example of why male doctors are not to be trusted alone with female patients.  He is leaving his mark.  Why?  I would wonder if he did not do much more and leave this just to let her know he could and if time allowed, did.  He is creepy.
Problem is even female surgeons will turn around and leave you alone with males while under anesthesia.
Many women are raped and never know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He is a perfect example of why male doctors are not to be trusted alone with female patients.  He is leaving his mark.  Why?  I would wonder if he did not do much more and leave this just to let her know he could and if time allowed, did.  He is creepy.<br />
Problem is even female surgeons will turn around and leave you alone with males while under anesthesia.<br />
Many women are raped and never know.</p>
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		<title>By: SunlessNick</title>
		<link>http://theangryblackwoman.com/2008/07/23/the-audacity-of-bodily-autonomy/comment-page-1/#comment-7932</link>
		<dc:creator>SunlessNick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 01:30:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theangryblackwoman.wordpress.com/?p=416#comment-7932</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;But his intention has to be considered.&lt;/em&gt;

Do let&#039;s.

&lt;em&gt;If everything was so above board, why not do that when nurses were around?&lt;/em&gt;

And why do it around her crotch area?  If the idea was to &quot;lift her spirits&quot; why not the back of her hand, somewhere she could look at under almost any circumstances - rather than somewhere she can only see when she gets naked?  Why does he want THAT to be the time she sees the reminder of him?

I consider his intentions and find them suspect.  I&#039;m on her side.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>But his intention has to be considered.</em></p>
<p>Do let&#8217;s.</p>
<p><em>If everything was so above board, why not do that when nurses were around?</em></p>
<p>And why do it around her crotch area?  If the idea was to &#8220;lift her spirits&#8221; why not the back of her hand, somewhere she could look at under almost any circumstances &#8211; rather than somewhere she can only see when she gets naked?  Why does he want THAT to be the time she sees the reminder of him?</p>
<p>I consider his intentions and find them suspect.  I&#8217;m on her side.</p>
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		<title>By: kaje</title>
		<link>http://theangryblackwoman.com/2008/07/23/the-audacity-of-bodily-autonomy/comment-page-1/#comment-7933</link>
		<dc:creator>kaje</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 00:32:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theangryblackwoman.wordpress.com/?p=416#comment-7933</guid>
		<description>This reminds me of a case a while back, where a surgeon CARVED HIS INITIALS into the abdomen of a c-section patient.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D06E2D7153CF934A15752C0A9669C8B63&amp;sec=&amp;spon=&amp;pagewanted=all

I have a horrible fear of any surgery, and stories like these, plus my one experience, don&#039;t help.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This reminds me of a case a while back, where a surgeon CARVED HIS INITIALS into the abdomen of a c-section patient.</p>
<p><a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D06E2D7153CF934A15752C0A9669C8B63&amp;sec=&amp;spon=&amp;pagewanted=all" rel="nofollow">http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D06E2D7153CF934A15752C0A9669C8B63&amp;sec=&amp;spon=&amp;pagewanted=all</a></p>
<p>I have a horrible fear of any surgery, and stories like these, plus my one experience, don&#8217;t help.</p>
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		<title>By: davka</title>
		<link>http://theangryblackwoman.com/2008/07/23/the-audacity-of-bodily-autonomy/comment-page-1/#comment-7918</link>
		<dc:creator>davka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Aug 2008 02:59:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theangryblackwoman.wordpress.com/?p=416#comment-7918</guid>
		<description>Susie- yes yes yes</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Susie- yes yes yes</p>
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		<title>By: AmyInOhio</title>
		<link>http://theangryblackwoman.com/2008/07/23/the-audacity-of-bodily-autonomy/comment-page-1/#comment-7920</link>
		<dc:creator>AmyInOhio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 18:20:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theangryblackwoman.wordpress.com/?p=416#comment-7920</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m appalled by the comments here that don&#039;t find fault with this doc&#039;s actions - and sorry, that MD behind your name does nothing to impress me.

He was out of line and should be punished for his actions.  Our bodies are ours alone not some etch-a-sketch for his amusement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m appalled by the comments here that don&#8217;t find fault with this doc&#8217;s actions &#8211; and sorry, that MD behind your name does nothing to impress me.</p>
<p>He was out of line and should be punished for his actions.  Our bodies are ours alone not some etch-a-sketch for his amusement.</p>
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		<title>By: Violation of bodily privacy by a physician &#171; don&#8217;t ya wish your girlfriend was smart like me?</title>
		<link>http://theangryblackwoman.com/2008/07/23/the-audacity-of-bodily-autonomy/comment-page-1/#comment-7919</link>
		<dc:creator>Violation of bodily privacy by a physician &#171; don&#8217;t ya wish your girlfriend was smart like me?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 16:05:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theangryblackwoman.wordpress.com/?p=416#comment-7919</guid>
		<description>[...] of bodily privacy by a&#160;physician Via The Angry Black Woman: Surgeon sued for giving anesthetized patient temporary tattoo. The tattoo was not at all medical in [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of bodily privacy by a&nbsp;physician Via The Angry Black Woman: Surgeon sued for giving anesthetized patient temporary tattoo. The tattoo was not at all medical in [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Susie</title>
		<link>http://theangryblackwoman.com/2008/07/23/the-audacity-of-bodily-autonomy/comment-page-1/#comment-7930</link>
		<dc:creator>Susie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 02:09:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theangryblackwoman.wordpress.com/?p=416#comment-7930</guid>
		<description>Apparently a couple of comments hung in moderation for a while.

&lt;i&gt;What makes you think that a commenter claiming to be an MD is in fact actualy an MD?&lt;/i&gt;

A number of commenters on the thread claim to be doctors who know the doctor in question and are highly protective of him in their responses.  Certainly this is the Internet, and they could easily be lying.  But there&#039;s no particular reason to be certain they are, unless you think it&#039;s terribly unlikely for doctors to be arrogant and obnoxious.

And if you do, I can refer you to a woman I know who&#039;d had several children by a young age, entirely by choice.  However, this apparently didn&#039;t sit well with her ob-gyn, and immediately after having given birth to her youngest child, while she was still under the influence of anesthesia and somewhat incoherent, the ob-gyn pressured her, in tandem with her now ex-husband, to allow him to tie her tubes.  That&#039;s right, she was coerced into making a decision that would affect her fertility for the rest of her life on a snap basis while completely at the mercy of the person pressuring her to do so.  She now totally regrets this, not least because she is remarried and will very likely be unable to have a child with her second husband.

&lt;i&gt;Bodily manipulation of a non-medicinal nature was DEFINITELY a bad call by the doc; even if it has been pardoned by all of his previous patiets.&lt;/i&gt;

I would question whether it&#039;s truly been pardoned, or whether many people have felt powerless to object.  See the anecdote above -- my friend completely hated what was done to her, but never attempted to seek redress because she simply didn&#039;t want to deal with the fall-out.  She doesn&#039;t pardon what was done to her, she just doesn&#039;t have the emotional wherewithal to demand justice for a number of reasons, not least because it would create discord with the extremely combative ex who was also involved.

&lt;i&gt;But his intention has to be considered. &lt;/i&gt;

Actually, no it doesn&#039;t.  In the first place, the completely gratuitous sexualizing of the tattoo makes it seem very unlikely that his intention was good, as does the fact that he applied the tatoo when no one else was present.  If everything was so above board, why not do that when nurses were around?  However, even if we give him the benefit of every doubt, what has to be considered is the effect of what he did on the woman he did it to.  If you can&#039;t get how his having marked her with a reminder of her total powerlessness during a period she&#039;ll never be able to recall, and his ability to have done whatever he pleased to her during that time, is extremely traumatic, you&#039;re just not making any attempt really to put yourself in this woman&#039;s shoes.  Or, more accurately, her hospital gown.

&lt;i&gt;But if Mateo goes for the juggular and tries to ruin this doctor’s life over something that can wash off, it would be damn near impossible for her to garner any sympathy/support from me.&lt;/i&gt;

You know, somehow I think she&#039;ll manage to carry on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apparently a couple of comments hung in moderation for a while.</p>
<p><i>What makes you think that a commenter claiming to be an MD is in fact actualy an MD?</i></p>
<p>A number of commenters on the thread claim to be doctors who know the doctor in question and are highly protective of him in their responses.  Certainly this is the Internet, and they could easily be lying.  But there&#8217;s no particular reason to be certain they are, unless you think it&#8217;s terribly unlikely for doctors to be arrogant and obnoxious.</p>
<p>And if you do, I can refer you to a woman I know who&#8217;d had several children by a young age, entirely by choice.  However, this apparently didn&#8217;t sit well with her ob-gyn, and immediately after having given birth to her youngest child, while she was still under the influence of anesthesia and somewhat incoherent, the ob-gyn pressured her, in tandem with her now ex-husband, to allow him to tie her tubes.  That&#8217;s right, she was coerced into making a decision that would affect her fertility for the rest of her life on a snap basis while completely at the mercy of the person pressuring her to do so.  She now totally regrets this, not least because she is remarried and will very likely be unable to have a child with her second husband.</p>
<p><i>Bodily manipulation of a non-medicinal nature was DEFINITELY a bad call by the doc; even if it has been pardoned by all of his previous patiets.</i></p>
<p>I would question whether it&#8217;s truly been pardoned, or whether many people have felt powerless to object.  See the anecdote above &#8212; my friend completely hated what was done to her, but never attempted to seek redress because she simply didn&#8217;t want to deal with the fall-out.  She doesn&#8217;t pardon what was done to her, she just doesn&#8217;t have the emotional wherewithal to demand justice for a number of reasons, not least because it would create discord with the extremely combative ex who was also involved.</p>
<p><i>But his intention has to be considered. </i></p>
<p>Actually, no it doesn&#8217;t.  In the first place, the completely gratuitous sexualizing of the tattoo makes it seem very unlikely that his intention was good, as does the fact that he applied the tatoo when no one else was present.  If everything was so above board, why not do that when nurses were around?  However, even if we give him the benefit of every doubt, what has to be considered is the effect of what he did on the woman he did it to.  If you can&#8217;t get how his having marked her with a reminder of her total powerlessness during a period she&#8217;ll never be able to recall, and his ability to have done whatever he pleased to her during that time, is extremely traumatic, you&#8217;re just not making any attempt really to put yourself in this woman&#8217;s shoes.  Or, more accurately, her hospital gown.</p>
<p><i>But if Mateo goes for the juggular and tries to ruin this doctor’s life over something that can wash off, it would be damn near impossible for her to garner any sympathy/support from me.</i></p>
<p>You know, somehow I think she&#8217;ll manage to carry on.</p>
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		<title>By: sylvia</title>
		<link>http://theangryblackwoman.com/2008/07/23/the-audacity-of-bodily-autonomy/comment-page-1/#comment-7923</link>
		<dc:creator>sylvia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 02:29:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theangryblackwoman.wordpress.com/?p=416#comment-7923</guid>
		<description>i saw this post on another blog today and i came back here to leave comments because like many of you, i&#039;m appalled at the comments where people feel nothing really serious has been done.  i agree with everyone here who feels there&#039;s been an injustice.  my comments from the other blog post are &quot;i hope she sues the pants off of him. literally! the nerve! she came for surgery, not an explant of a tatoo to lift her spirits. maybe he should have a biker-type person (as was mentioned above) engrave a tatoo on his penis. i’m sure he’ll think twice then before he does it again. he was WRONG!

what if she had had an allergic reaction of some sort, which may have even killed her? would that be ok because he was only trying to lift her spirts? it was unprofessional, unauthorized, a violation, and unethical.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i saw this post on another blog today and i came back here to leave comments because like many of you, i&#8217;m appalled at the comments where people feel nothing really serious has been done.  i agree with everyone here who feels there&#8217;s been an injustice.  my comments from the other blog post are &#8220;i hope she sues the pants off of him. literally! the nerve! she came for surgery, not an explant of a tatoo to lift her spirits. maybe he should have a biker-type person (as was mentioned above) engrave a tatoo on his penis. i’m sure he’ll think twice then before he does it again. he was WRONG!</p>
<p>what if she had had an allergic reaction of some sort, which may have even killed her? would that be ok because he was only trying to lift her spirts? it was unprofessional, unauthorized, a violation, and unethical.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: dianne</title>
		<link>http://theangryblackwoman.com/2008/07/23/the-audacity-of-bodily-autonomy/comment-page-1/#comment-7922</link>
		<dc:creator>dianne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 01:12:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theangryblackwoman.wordpress.com/?p=416#comment-7922</guid>
		<description>I am pretty sure I have been raped under anesthesia - while the surgeon&#039;s colleages watched.  I could never prove anything - I was too out of it to be believed.  Besides- It had all ready been established by several doctors (to one another and to my face) that I was a dirty whore - otherwise, why was I always going in for pelvic exams complaining of pain when no one could find a problem?

Two years later, my Mom&#039;s doc did exploratory surgery on me.  Turns out I had endometriosis.  That last doc felt maybe I had waited &quot;too late&quot; to have babies and was sick from that (I was 22), but he was NICE to me, and so I chalked it up to a cultural difference.  It felt that good to have someone treat me like a person.

Despite the one nice man, it took 2 decades for me to trust doctors again.  I hope this woman sues and I hope she wins.  This is egregious, it&#039;s not new for doctor&#039;s to treat women (especially those of us who are &quot;classed&quot; diferently from them) as their property while in their &quot;possession.&quot;  It has to be stopped.

Good for her!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am pretty sure I have been raped under anesthesia &#8211; while the surgeon&#8217;s colleages watched.  I could never prove anything &#8211; I was too out of it to be believed.  Besides- It had all ready been established by several doctors (to one another and to my face) that I was a dirty whore &#8211; otherwise, why was I always going in for pelvic exams complaining of pain when no one could find a problem?</p>
<p>Two years later, my Mom&#8217;s doc did exploratory surgery on me.  Turns out I had endometriosis.  That last doc felt maybe I had waited &#8220;too late&#8221; to have babies and was sick from that (I was 22), but he was NICE to me, and so I chalked it up to a cultural difference.  It felt that good to have someone treat me like a person.</p>
<p>Despite the one nice man, it took 2 decades for me to trust doctors again.  I hope this woman sues and I hope she wins.  This is egregious, it&#8217;s not new for doctor&#8217;s to treat women (especially those of us who are &#8220;classed&#8221; diferently from them) as their property while in their &#8220;possession.&#8221;  It has to be stopped.</p>
<p>Good for her!</p>
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