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	<title>Comments on: Classic Hipster Racism</title>
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	<link>http://theangryblackwoman.com/2008/07/17/classic-hipster-racism/</link>
	<description>Race, Politics, Gender, Sexuality, Anger</description>
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		<title>By: Daughter of the Ring of Fire &#187; Blog Archive &#187; How Not to Combat Rape</title>
		<link>http://theangryblackwoman.com/2008/07/17/classic-hipster-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-7913</link>
		<dc:creator>Daughter of the Ring of Fire &#187; Blog Archive &#187; How Not to Combat Rape</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 01:26:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theangryblackwoman.wordpress.com/?p=412#comment-7913</guid>
		<description>[...] you are hurting are regularly hurt (which is one of the ideas that underlies &#8220;ironic&#8221; hipster racism and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] you are hurting are regularly hurt (which is one of the ideas that underlies &#8220;ironic&#8221; hipster racism and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Promiscuous Reader</title>
		<link>http://theangryblackwoman.com/2008/07/17/classic-hipster-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-7912</link>
		<dc:creator>The Promiscuous Reader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 13:58:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theangryblackwoman.wordpress.com/?p=412#comment-7912</guid>
		<description>Remember, A., I&#039;m not defending the New Yorker cover.  I think it was meant to mock something, but the artist didn&#039;t make it clear enough what he was mocking.  I suppose it was meant to mock the inflammatory caricatures of Obama and his wife that so many Americans are willing to accept as fact.  It was very much &quot;about our own issues.&quot;  Since the New Yorker is a liberal magazine, I don&#039;t see why so many people reacted as if the image had appeared on The National Review instead.

It still sounds as if you want the satire to be too easy.  The fact is that a sizeable number of English people considered the Irish to be subhuman when Swift wrote &quot;A Modest Proposal.&quot;  That&#039;s a view that persisted well into the 19th century, and can be seen in American political cartoons from that period too.

Serious satire, satire with teeth in it, takes on topics that aren&#039;t &quot;ridiculous.&quot;   In some ways, it seems to me that Blitt&#039;s satire may have been more successful than he could have hoped: it revealed how many Americans see Islam  (so that it&#039;s a &quot;smear&quot;, in Obama&#039;s word, to suggest that he is one) and African-American anger as bad things, and those are very much our issues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Remember, A., I&#8217;m not defending the New Yorker cover.  I think it was meant to mock something, but the artist didn&#8217;t make it clear enough what he was mocking.  I suppose it was meant to mock the inflammatory caricatures of Obama and his wife that so many Americans are willing to accept as fact.  It was very much &#8220;about our own issues.&#8221;  Since the New Yorker is a liberal magazine, I don&#8217;t see why so many people reacted as if the image had appeared on The National Review instead.</p>
<p>It still sounds as if you want the satire to be too easy.  The fact is that a sizeable number of English people considered the Irish to be subhuman when Swift wrote &#8220;A Modest Proposal.&#8221;  That&#8217;s a view that persisted well into the 19th century, and can be seen in American political cartoons from that period too.</p>
<p>Serious satire, satire with teeth in it, takes on topics that aren&#8217;t &#8220;ridiculous.&#8221;   In some ways, it seems to me that Blitt&#8217;s satire may have been more successful than he could have hoped: it revealed how many Americans see Islam  (so that it&#8217;s a &#8220;smear&#8221;, in Obama&#8217;s word, to suggest that he is one) and African-American anger as bad things, and those are very much our issues.</p>
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		<title>By: A.</title>
		<link>http://theangryblackwoman.com/2008/07/17/classic-hipster-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-7911</link>
		<dc:creator>A.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 05:26:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theangryblackwoman.wordpress.com/?p=412#comment-7911</guid>
		<description>Satire also has an element of mocking something, which this doesn&#039;t really have. Satire can make something problematic into something so totally ridiculous, such as fattening up and eating Irish children, or anything by Dave Chappelle, but, at the same time, it talks about our own issues in the process.

Not much was ridiculous about that. It&#039;s exactly how a sizeable amount of people in the US view the Obamas, and our media continues to push it. It&#039;s a lot more different from things like Hitler being interviewed by Warhol and things like that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Satire also has an element of mocking something, which this doesn&#8217;t really have. Satire can make something problematic into something so totally ridiculous, such as fattening up and eating Irish children, or anything by Dave Chappelle, but, at the same time, it talks about our own issues in the process.</p>
<p>Not much was ridiculous about that. It&#8217;s exactly how a sizeable amount of people in the US view the Obamas, and our media continues to push it. It&#8217;s a lot more different from things like Hitler being interviewed by Warhol and things like that.</p>
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		<title>By: The Promiscuous Reader</title>
		<link>http://theangryblackwoman.com/2008/07/17/classic-hipster-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-7910</link>
		<dc:creator>The Promiscuous Reader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 00:25:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theangryblackwoman.wordpress.com/?p=412#comment-7910</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the post, nojojojo.  I agree with your reaction to the New Yorker cover, and I think the other reactions I see in the comments here are revealing.   People, the best satire is often, even usually, tasteless and offensive.   So those of you who think that the New Yorker Obama cover fails as satire because it&#039;s tasteless and offensive are way off the mark.

It&#039;s possible for people to miss this in Swift&#039;s Modest Proposal partly because they&#039;ve never read it (that 18th-century prose is, like, so hard to get through), but mainly because it&#039;s so distant from us.   If an Iraqi, say, were to suggest today that Iraqi babies be fattened up for American tables, I doubt that most American liberals would get it.   (And &quot;fat&quot; is so insensitive!  The babies would be big-boned, not fat!  How can I say such awful things?)   Someone in the comments said that the &quot;comfortable&quot; don&#039;t do satire.  Dean Swift was pretty comfortable, especially for an Irishman in his day, so that fails as a criterion too.

I discussed this at some length at my blog, so see http://thisislikesogay.blogspot.com/2008/07/strike-while-ironys-hot.html if you&#039;re interested.  To make my position clear, though, like nojojojo I thought the New Yorker cover wasn&#039;t hip at all, just tired.  I&#039;ve never liked Barry Blitt&#039;s work anyway.  But the visual responses to the Obama cover that I saw were no better; I&#039;ve linked to Vanity Fair&#039;s and The Nation&#039;s in my blog entry.  The positive feedback they got from some Obama fans just confirms my feeling that a lot of liberals don&#039;t understand what satire is supposed to be.  That would be okay if they didn&#039;t think they so were so much smarter than their opposition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the post, nojojojo.  I agree with your reaction to the New Yorker cover, and I think the other reactions I see in the comments here are revealing.   People, the best satire is often, even usually, tasteless and offensive.   So those of you who think that the New Yorker Obama cover fails as satire because it&#8217;s tasteless and offensive are way off the mark.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s possible for people to miss this in Swift&#8217;s Modest Proposal partly because they&#8217;ve never read it (that 18th-century prose is, like, so hard to get through), but mainly because it&#8217;s so distant from us.   If an Iraqi, say, were to suggest today that Iraqi babies be fattened up for American tables, I doubt that most American liberals would get it.   (And &#8220;fat&#8221; is so insensitive!  The babies would be big-boned, not fat!  How can I say such awful things?)   Someone in the comments said that the &#8220;comfortable&#8221; don&#8217;t do satire.  Dean Swift was pretty comfortable, especially for an Irishman in his day, so that fails as a criterion too.</p>
<p>I discussed this at some length at my blog, so see <a href="http://thisislikesogay.blogspot.com/2008/07/strike-while-ironys-hot.html" rel="nofollow">http://thisislikesogay.blogspot.com/2008/07/strike-while-ironys-hot.html</a> if you&#8217;re interested.  To make my position clear, though, like nojojojo I thought the New Yorker cover wasn&#8217;t hip at all, just tired.  I&#8217;ve never liked Barry Blitt&#8217;s work anyway.  But the visual responses to the Obama cover that I saw were no better; I&#8217;ve linked to Vanity Fair&#8217;s and The Nation&#8217;s in my blog entry.  The positive feedback they got from some Obama fans just confirms my feeling that a lot of liberals don&#8217;t understand what satire is supposed to be.  That would be okay if they didn&#8217;t think they so were so much smarter than their opposition.</p>
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		<title>By: Susie</title>
		<link>http://theangryblackwoman.com/2008/07/17/classic-hipster-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-7909</link>
		<dc:creator>Susie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 23:17:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theangryblackwoman.wordpress.com/?p=412#comment-7909</guid>
		<description>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080807/ap_on_el_pr/obama_threat

This would be why the New Yorker cover isn&#039;t funny.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080807/ap_on_el_pr/obama_threat" rel="nofollow">http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080807/ap_on_el_pr/obama_threat</a></p>
<p>This would be why the New Yorker cover isn&#8217;t funny.</p>
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		<title>By: abw</title>
		<link>http://theangryblackwoman.com/2008/07/17/classic-hipster-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-7908</link>
		<dc:creator>abw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 05:10:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theangryblackwoman.wordpress.com/?p=412#comment-7908</guid>
		<description>Nojojojo, I second your opinion about the New York TImes. With that said, hipster/progressive/colorblind racism can be as annoying , silly,and restrictive as conservative colorblind racism which makes it as tired as the latter-especially when they perceive themselves as being &quot;oh so much more&quot; enlightened, hence superior, than everybody else. The words, stated thoughts, and actions(which to me is more annoying that the two examples aboves) of these enlightened radical bigots is proof positive of their often unconscious bias.  They fail to realize that there is a vast difference between being genuinely antiracist and colorblind-and to be an effective progressive hipster you should be anti-racist and progressive /left leaning. Then again these people tend to be sex-blind, gender-blind, etc. and only progressive-sometimes only moderately progressive-in class-based issues-if that at times.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nojojojo, I second your opinion about the New York TImes. With that said, hipster/progressive/colorblind racism can be as annoying , silly,and restrictive as conservative colorblind racism which makes it as tired as the latter-especially when they perceive themselves as being &#8220;oh so much more&#8221; enlightened, hence superior, than everybody else. The words, stated thoughts, and actions(which to me is more annoying that the two examples aboves) of these enlightened radical bigots is proof positive of their often unconscious bias.  They fail to realize that there is a vast difference between being genuinely antiracist and colorblind-and to be an effective progressive hipster you should be anti-racist and progressive /left leaning. Then again these people tend to be sex-blind, gender-blind, etc. and only progressive-sometimes only moderately progressive-in class-based issues-if that at times.</p>
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		<title>By: Susie</title>
		<link>http://theangryblackwoman.com/2008/07/17/classic-hipster-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-7854</link>
		<dc:creator>Susie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Aug 2008 19:14:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theangryblackwoman.wordpress.com/?p=412#comment-7854</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;i no longer interact with this person&lt;/i&gt;

Wow, I can&#039;t imagine why not.  She sounds so lovely, and not at all, you know, incredibly fucking stupid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>i no longer interact with this person</i></p>
<p>Wow, I can&#8217;t imagine why not.  She sounds so lovely, and not at all, you know, incredibly fucking stupid.</p>
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		<title>By: jb</title>
		<link>http://theangryblackwoman.com/2008/07/17/classic-hipster-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-7853</link>
		<dc:creator>jb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 04:19:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theangryblackwoman.wordpress.com/?p=412#comment-7853</guid>
		<description>how bout the 30-something white hipster who sent me an evite to her birthday party where the theme was:  GHETTO FAB.  Come like the hot ass mess you know you wanna be!

or something along those lines...

i no longer interact with this person</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>how bout the 30-something white hipster who sent me an evite to her birthday party where the theme was:  GHETTO FAB.  Come like the hot ass mess you know you wanna be!</p>
<p>or something along those lines&#8230;</p>
<p>i no longer interact with this person</p>
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		<title>By: Susie</title>
		<link>http://theangryblackwoman.com/2008/07/17/classic-hipster-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-7855</link>
		<dc:creator>Susie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 05:54:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theangryblackwoman.wordpress.com/?p=412#comment-7855</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Isn’t it just amazing how we (and that means me, certainly) can forget something important about a work we studied so frequently and extensively while a student? :)&lt;/i&gt;

Oh, in all honesty, I&#039;d never read it that closely.   I read it years ago because I&#039;d seen it mentioned a number of times, and it seemed like something I should be conversant with.  But obviously I ought to read it again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Isn’t it just amazing how we (and that means me, certainly) can forget something important about a work we studied so frequently and extensively while a student? :)</i></p>
<p>Oh, in all honesty, I&#8217;d never read it that closely.   I read it years ago because I&#8217;d seen it mentioned a number of times, and it seemed like something I should be conversant with.  But obviously I ought to read it again.</p>
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		<title>By: AmyInOhio</title>
		<link>http://theangryblackwoman.com/2008/07/17/classic-hipster-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-7852</link>
		<dc:creator>AmyInOhio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 16:40:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theangryblackwoman.wordpress.com/?p=412#comment-7852</guid>
		<description>I need an island and big fat drink when I read this stuff.  What an asshat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I need an island and big fat drink when I read this stuff.  What an asshat.</p>
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