my email’s on my blog if you want to discuss further, but i’m sure you’re busy and done with this frustrating shit anyway.

Argh this is going nowhere. I am just addressing my need to use different language- not a different word than White, but language that addresses poor people as such because they wont listen to me otherwise.

The show example killed my point because any way you read it it reads like a whiney white person asking for more space. I was just trying to give an example of where race and class are mixing in ways that are confusing people and making potential allies misunderstand each other.

I never denied my privilege. I never denied my whiteness. You both keep insisting that that is what I did, but I didn’t.

Yeah. You did:

I do have a problem with these definitions of white. White is anyone who benefits from white privilege?…I find it bothers me to have this umbrella term of White although I understand its use and I agree with it in a lot of ways, but I know my people are not at all in community with the white, middle class feminists in question recently. My people are not at all included in the popular discourse. My people are not at all in that liminal space we are speaking of. I’m not saying they don’t enjoy white privileges, but to paint all white people as khaki wearing upper middle class power monopolists, it isn’t fair and it erases my experience and I don’t feel comfortable with that.

What really interests me is why you would lump the term “White” to primarily mean middle-class.

Oh well. It’s not like you’re going to read this post since you haven’t read any of the others. If you want to bitch about me, I may as well give you something real to bitch about:

DAVKA IS TEH EVIL111!!!!ELEV!!!!111 KILL WHITEY!!!!

….what-the-fuck-ever….

I reacted poorly to Angel’s comments because I found them totally condescending and nasty and I don’t react well to that, sorry. I can take anger and I can take criticism and I can take having my card pulled, but I can’t take people being knee-jerkingly shitty to me, which is what I saw her doing.

All I’ve ever done was call you out on your own stupid shit. And when I did so, you refused to back up what you said, backpedaled, and started calling me names. And I’m the one who’s supposed to be “acting shitty”!

I am not sorry for defending myself against someone who is trying to silence me and make me look like a fool.

As far as “trying to silence you” (which, BTW, I find incredibly ironic considering the whole Seal Press, Marcotte, white feminism fiasco), I’ve even made some concessions towards your point. You’ve refused to do otherwise.

As for making you look like a fool, you don’t need any help on that one.

Anyway, my main point is that in talking to white upper middle class allies the language is always impersonal and academic, little practiced axions like ‘racism is wrong” that mean nothing to them personally because they live day in and day out without every having to deal with racism on a personal level because they live in a world of whiteness and privilege. Poor white women, on the other hand, are going to be able to relate in personals, in concrete examples of their lives. THIS IS WHAT I WAS SAYING. And this DIFFERENCE, this politic of difference is so often ignored and overlooked and I feel that that is very unfortunate. This thread is called “Allies Talking” and I feel this point of difference between Allies was completely appropriate here.