Your right to a voice is NOT in dispute, as far as I’m concerned. I thought that what I was doing was acknowledging narratives other than the dominant one, on a thread dedicated to just that.

I was unaware of the censorship of stories on the NYT adoption blog. I am sorry to hear about that; it’s wrong and it shouldn’t be happening. I agree with you about the dominant narrative.

But I disagree with your statement that “no one’s trying to paint all transnational adoption with a broad brush.” This was the distinct impression that I got from Deoridhe’s comments to me even after I had acknowledged that I’d misread your post, along with the sense that my voice should not be raised in discussion on the topic if I was going to disagree. Which strikes me as rather ironic, given the subject directly concerns my personal history as a biracial woman, and not, I suspect, yours or hers. At least where this issue is concerned, I dare say I have a right to a voice.

Because I saw something I perceived to be as a sweeping mischaracterization (incorrectly, as it turns out, but I didn’t know that at the time), I spoke up. That may not have been in keeping with the spirit of the thread, but if someone is going to make pronouncements about a subject concerning *my* history, of course I’m going to speak about it. Or would you rather I be silent?

I get where you’re coming from, but I think that you can acknowledge that the dominant narrative around adoption, domestic or international, is that it is a pretty saintly, helpful thing to do and that the children adopted should be thankful to grow up in the US. Transnational adoptees are fighting to tell their own stories, and when those stories do not fit the dominant narrative, they are being actively censored (for example, on the NYT adoption blog, as many fine bloggers have covered). I think you are not acknowledging that these “sides” – the dominant narrative and the testimonies of transnational adoptees – exist with a vast power differential.

Also, no one’s trying to paint all transnational adoption with a broad brush. Damn right, there are some people whose adoptions work out great on both sides. But to make the conversation include those nice white folks who adopt with the purest of intentions, to refocus the conversation on the GOOD and to imply that the conversation needs *balancing* somehow, seems to me to be the exact opposite of what the Thank You, White People thread was about.

Katie,

That is what I wondered. Sorry for misinterpreting — I got your comment mixed up with another remark that had been made on adoption further upthread. They had nothing to do with each other; I just mixed them up. That was my bad.

Re: the subject of adoption, I’ll reiterate, again, that I am aware it can be problematic. I think the industry that has recently sprung up around foreign adoption is insidiously evil, and has perverted many good intentions. I didn’t know about this industry before, so I’m glad you and Deoridhe brought it up (because I know well-intentioned people who are adopting or want to adopt, and they should be made aware of this). And obviously there are a plethora of experiences surrounding international adoption, from good to bad. I’ve read some experiences of adopted children whose parents are tyrannical, racist, etc.; that sort of thing shouldn’t happen and is definitely wrong. But I’ve also known good people who have adopted children and love them. That isn’t something that can (or should) be denied.

So I’ll also say, once again, that while international adoption certainly has its flaws, I refuse to see it dismissed as yet-another-evil-perpetuated-by-white-people (not that you were doing this, but it’s what I thought you were doing at the time). Such a reading of it would be wrong. I KNOW international adoption can and does have good effects because my entire existence and personal history was founded upon it. As such it concerns me very personally, and I won’t see it disparaged as something that’s generally evil or wrong because such a reading is, IMO, laughably one-sided. And furthermore such a reading would completely DENY my experiences and those of others like me. I believe in the good intentions of people, of many adoptive parents, because I am the result.

So, are there problems? Yes. Is the stealing and trafficking of babies just about one of the most evil enterprises that has ever sprung up? Yes. Is adoption bad? No. No.

Sure it can be, but let’s not paint with a broad brush. It can be good. It can be bad. I think it’s broad enough to encompass both the best and the worst in humanity, from benevolence and kindness to colonialism and racism, and the variety of experiences that come in between.

I had no intention of dismissing all adoption out of hand as kidnapping. If you’ll reread what I wrote, I did not identify the phenomenon I was speaking of as “adoption.”

Your family’s experience is, of course, valid. You don’t need me to tell you that. But I think most of us would agree that Madonna’s adoption of the little boy from Malawi was nothing short of kidnapping in its shadiness, and hers was only the most public example of what is a longstanding practice internationally and domestically.

Also, I am very much in agreement with Deoridhe’s comment about the rhetoric around transnational adoption, which I and many others often find problematic. The savior complex that many adoptive parents have has a direct link to US and European hegemony, colonialism and white privilege. I do not have the right to speak to the experiences of transnationally or transracially adopted folks, but many of their testimonies about cultural erasure, racism, dislocation and enforced gratitude are as real as your family’s story. Like Deoridhe says, dying in a dumpster and being adopted by a nice white family are not the only options.

If you’re interested in other perspectives on transnational and transracial adoption there are many places on the web to read them. I can suggest some, if you’re interested – just ask.

I’ve blogged about my experience as a Jew, but some of the thoughts in here have said it much better than I could have.

99.9% of the time, I am a white girl. I benefit from white privilege. Every once in a great while, anti-Semitism smacks me in the face, but in general, as someone above pointed out, it is certainly not institutionalized.

I think, though, that that one tiny bit of the time where I am reminded that I am part of a group that some people hate makes me more willing to see racism both overt and institutionalized toward others.

Which is hard because it makes me turn around and reflect on my own white privilege.

And I joke that my Jewish and Catholic parents gave me a double dose of guilt.

But guilt doesn’t help. Being conscious, being an ally when I can, speaking out against racism when I see it, and just shutting up and listening to people of color’s experiences does help.

“I have talked to Jewish people.”

That just reminds me of this. (Sorry for the shameless self-promotion.)

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“Okay, I’m confused. I thought you said you agreed with my statement about, for example, Korean babies being taken from their parents who want them and given to white women under the guise of adoption.

You also didn’t address the larger framework. The taking of foreign, non-white babies is increasinly becoming a status symbol via a few highly publicised adoptions. The downsides of this can be seen in, for example, the European couple who adopted an Asian (I think Korean) infant, then abandoned her in China as “not their real child” because they started having problems with her.

The downsides can also be seen in overall colonialization, in the idea that adopted infants should be so grateful that they can’t ever say anything bad about either their parents or the US because they were saved from some horrible fate, as if being colored and discriminated against while also being told that you can’t possibly be because your parents don’t see color ISN’T a horrible fate.

Yes, some adoption is of people being taken from places where they were loved and wanted (i.e. stolen) and given to white people who pay money for them. Making adoption into some golden, unable to be objected to or even crituqed item – ESPECIALLY in a thread where the main topic is that someone attempted to make slavery into something that blacks should be grateful for, is really inappropriate.”

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Aside from the fact that I never said anything about adoption being golden or unable to be critiqued (actually I said it had obvious flaws and is not an issue where one side is only good or bad), I’ll address your points simply:

Yes, babies are stolen and sold to unwitting adoptive parents (I mentioned it wouldn’t surprise me if it were true, but I wanted to be sure so I looked it up and found that within the past decade it has become an increasing problem. I did not realize this, so thank you for bringing it up). This is unquestionably bad, wrong on every level, and should not happen. On the other hand, there are still unwanted babies and children living without promise of much improvement. For such children adoption is a good thing.

So to reiterate: I don’t think adoption is a black and white issue. I think some adoptions are good, some are bad, but the idea of adoption isn’t something that can be dismissed out of hand, because for kids (like my mother) who had little/no future, foreign adoption gave them a new life.

The reason I spoke up in the other thread is because I have personal experience with this issue (do you?). It happens to have been positive. You may not like it, but you can’t invalidate it.

That said, it’s clear the flaws in adoption laws and practices need to be addressed. In the past adoption has done plenty of good, and I think it still can (and does, when caring parents adopt unwanted children). But these issues are a very serious problem. It just leads me to see that, as with so many things, it really is a very grey area that encompasses both great good and very misguided evil. I happily landed on the “good” side of it, and so I know how beneficial it can be and feel the need to speak up about that. I don’t think it can be dismissed either way.