I am always uncomfortable when people who don’t appear to be Muslim talk about what “goes on in Islam” or “Sharia Law,” because I have received different information about it. I’m not a Muslim, so I have never felt comfortable necessarily saying much beyond what I said above, about ideas of “over there” and “how they treat women” as if it’s a separate thing from anything going on in the west, and how that bugs me.

I have some confusion around what I feel comfortable saying or what is respectful or not respectful. Because: when I went back to school a couple years ago, I first got to take a class by a professor who was Muslim and who outlined some basic teachings – these “basic tenets” have an official name, and I need to dose up on the Ginkgo Biloba or something cuz I’m forgetting names of everything lately (including a friend last night) – but my point is, what that professor taught bore no resemblance to what I had ever heard previously about Islam. Even pieces I had previously heard that were technically not false were also not even close to the whole truth.

And then I did independent studies on a Muslim woman writer who is a self-proclaimed Muslim feminist. And she was a devout Muslim, and I was surprised, because I had that impression of “feminist Muslim woman” in the west is always supposed to mean “woman who is from a Muslim culture who gives it the finger, like western women think she should!” Which I say not to be inflammatory, but as an example of judgmental ignorance about it that I learned in my own culture.

I hope my long-windedness is not an obnoxious de-rail here. What’s on my mind is that what I was taught about Islam made me feel the same as I felt when I heard things about what Jesus Christ was supposedly like as a person – heartsick. That in the way things started out, it was some pretty revolutionary social justice stuff going on, towards everyone, including towards women, and a lot of people don’t even know that. I mean I certainly didn’t, and I’ve been fairly preoccupied with religions for most of my life.

So I end up feeling like, dang, you (whichever “you” is talking bad about Islam as a religion) are being disrespectful towards a religion based on stuff that isn’t even true about it.

Now, I am not in a religion, although I find many religions compelling on an emotional and spiritual level. But again, because I’m not Muslim, I feel like who am I to ever blurt out my feelings of protectedness about it? At the same time, I feel like it is a betrayal of some kind to not speak up, especially when Muslim people are ignored or discounted.

So, again, Aaminah and Umm Zaid, thank you for commenting here, I was glad to read your words.

This is very illuminating because, as I said, I had assumed it was just a list of rules like the commandments or Leviticus, etc. Obviously it’s much more complicated than that.

Much respect, but the clear truth is that Jay is not “willing to listen to why he’s wrong”. This is obvious to us because he very strongly spoke about something as if he were an authority on the subject but was 100% wrong. He didn’t have the grace to say “from what I’ve read/been told… and may have been misinformed or misunderstood”. He presented his comments as matters of fact.

And this is something that we Muslims wrestle with CONSTANTLY. For some reason, though we know that PoC in general do not have to accept outsiders telling us what our reality is, people still believe it is perfectly acceptable to do this to Muslims. On the rare occassion that they do allow a Muslim voice in, it is someone who considers themselves “secular” and has rejected main elements of Islam. It is reality in the blogging world, even amongst supposedly well-intentioned people and even amongst PoC that real, practicing Muslims are kept out of the equation. And again, this goes back the the whole issue that I cannot be your only source of education. A) Ask a real Muslim. B) Be ready to listen and accept what they say, not tell them it doesn’t fit your preconceived notions, and C) Do your own research. I’m not saying that to you personally, AWB, because I KNOW you try, I’m saying that to everyone.

There isn’t really a way to give you “Sharia Resources” per se. It is quite a large course of study that takes years and is grounded first in detailed knowledge of the Qur’an and the Hadiths (sayings etc.) of our Prophet (peace be upon him). From there it goes into detailed study of the Caliphs following the death of the Prophet (peace be upon him) and their rulings, and then into a very deep study of law. And it is true that there are different rulings on many matters from different authorities understanding and application. It is not a monolithic entity, but a vast and to some degree evolving science.

Which is exactly why lay people and non-Muslims simply shouldn’t presume to speak on it. It is not a simple answer, it is about having the right question and asking those who know.

However, it is also reality that the form that Sharia takes in today’s societies is a far cry from true Sharia. I honestly cannot think of a single nation that claims to be under Sharia that actually upholds the true values of Sharia all the time. Many man-made rulings and pre-Islamic or modernist ideas have been allowed to permeate because of oppressive cultural norms. But in much the same way that we can say that the Bible did not sanction slavery as it was practiced in the US and its practicioners claimed, we should also be able to recognize that the Qur’an (which is the first basis of Sharia) does not sanction many things that its so-called practicioners claim. The problem is not with the religion, nor with the code of law; the problem is, as always, with the selfish and hateful way that humans will twist anything to suit their own purposes.

“if what he says about Sharia law is true (I say if only because I haven’t verified this independently)”

from the post itself.

I certainly didn’t take what Jay said as the ultimate truth.

I’m glad that I have readers who do know about Shari’ah Law. Because people like you and Aaminah and Saladin enter the conversation the rest of us can gain some understanding about these issues.

If you wouldn’t mind, can you provide us with some resources about Shari’ah Law? I always envisioned it as some sort of list, ala the 10 Commandments. But obviously that’s not the case.

I should note that, while I do really appreciate you both coming over (I assume from a trackback) I don’t want this to turn into a flamewar. I don’t want to dismiss your anger, but I do ask that you don’t post at Jay as if he were, say, a hateful troll, but instead as if he is a person who may be wrong about a lot, but is willing to listen to why he’s wrong. (That pretty much goes for all the other people who comment, too. No one has displayed unforgivable ignorance, from my POV.)

I’m curious to know why no Mozlem was asked or consulted about exactly what Shari’ah says about rape. As far as I can tell, the word of (yet another) White non-Muslim Western man was taken. I know it’s par for the course, but it’s a little disappointing on a blog like this.

We do speak English… we do have resources available for all online or in books … we do know about our own law and can interpret or explain it to non-Muslims perfectly well. Perhaps even better than people who don’t practice or believe in our religion do.

Just FTR, Shari’ah law — not the politicized tool that is enshrined in “constitutions” and as a football for parties and individuals jockeying for power — does not say that a woman who accuses a man of rape has “automatically” confessed to adultery. Despite what others may wish or say, Shari’ah law is not black and white. There is ample grey area. There is a lot of room to maneuver.

Like anything else, Islam and Shari’ah are subject to use and exploitation by people wishing to justify this or that. We here in the so-called “Middle East” see it everyday. Was the Saudi female victim (not forgetting, of course, that there was also a male victim) lashed because she sat in a car alone with an unrelated man (khalwa, which is against Saudi law, but there is nothing in Shari’ah that specifies such a punishment for khalwa), or because she went to the Arab media with her story and embarassed the Saudi gov’t? Her lawyer has also been punished. I mean, with people as pious and holy as te Saud family on the throne, is it possible that this has nothing to do with what Shari’i rulings say, but is being used to cover it up and put a veneer of piety and religiosity on their punishment of this minority woman?

Anyway, my point is, ask a Mozlem. We are capable of speaking for ourselves. Preferably one who has studied Islamic law at the hands of the masters of the law. They are out there (heck, I live near a whole bunch of them and almost all of them speak English).

The problem with the situation in Saudi Arabia has nothing to do with Islam or implementation of Sharia. It isn’t even Sharia that those stupid judges used to make their decision. They used their own allowance to make up rulings and punishments as they see fit, which is a Saudi freedom those judges have, but is not at all based in Sharia. In fact, everything about the way they made their decisions actually contravenes actual Sharia.

It IS a bad situation, but stop twisting it around and making it something that it isn’t. Stop speaking about something that you know nothing about and trying to sound authoritative on the subject.

Um, haven’t read through all the comments yet… will probably have more to say, but…

what the hell is this fool talking about? That is simply NOT TRUE about Sharia. It may be how some cultures interpret things, but it is absolutely not at all what Sharia law states.

In fact, rape is not considered adultry by any means. And in order to claim adultry occurred, under any circumstances, the Sharia requires four witnesses who actually saw the penis penetrate the woman. Evan a pregnancy/birth of a baby is not considered legal proof of adultry. Needless to say, that basically makes it near impossible for adultry to even be prosecuted under the real Sharia laws.

When will people wake up and stop blaming something they know nothing about for what is wrong with sick men who make up their own rules?

I see a similar dynamic with People of Faith who aren’t of the dominant faith of their country/region/culture. To take America as an example, people who aren’t Christian and, to some extent, Jewish. Pagans, I think, are in a similar zone as bisexuals. You won’t find too many of us who are thrilled with Christianity. many who are downright angry with it. But we feel uncomfortable in situations where faith and spirituality and deity are discussed as an absolute negative.

I would be interested to hear the ways in which people who do not belong to a culturally dominant religion/faith are privileged because, as I said, I am aware that people with privilege can certainly be blind to it. Because of that, I’m not able to extrapolate on my own and I may need a little help with this one.

You’re stereotyping atheists, and you’re doing so in a fashion that is informed by your privlilege to which you are blind. That’s, bluntly, how I feel.