Recently a friend of mine, writer Jay Lake, pointed to this article:
Saudi Rape Victim Gets 200 Lashes
A Saudi court sentenced a woman who had been gang raped to six months in jail and 200 lashes - more than doubling her initial penalty for being in the car of a man who was not a relative…
In its decision Wednesday, the court also roughly doubled prison sentences for the seven men convicted of raping the 19-year-old woman, the Arab News reported on its English-language Web site.
According to Arab News, the court said the woman’s punishment was increased because of “her attempt to aggravate and influence the judiciary through the media.”
[...]
The victim had initially been sentenced to 90 lashes after being convicting her of violating Saudi’s rigid laws on segregation of the sexes.Under Saudi Arabia’s interpretation of Islamic Sharia law, women are not allowed in public in the company of men other than their male relatives.
[...]
The initial sentences for the men convicted of the gang rape ranged from 10 months to five years in prison. Their new sentences range from two to nine years, the paper said.The attack took place in 2006. The woman has said that it occurred as she tried to retrieve her picture from a male high school student she used to know. While in the car with the student, two men got into the vehicle and drove them to a secluded area. She said she was raped there by seven men, three of whom also attacked her friend.
Reading stuff like this is Why I’m Angry, as I’ve pointed out before. But something in the commentary Jay gave along with this link also made me angry:
How about this: Under Shariate law, a woman who simply reports a rape is considered to have admitted her guilt as an adultress, and is subject to penalties up to execution. If this horrifies you, consider the secular viewpoint on this. There is no difference between that sort of religious insanity and moves to teach Intelligent Design in school, except in the matter of degree. In both cases, people of faith are deliberately discarding rationalism in the name of their religious principles.
Here’s the problem I have — if what he says about Sharia law is true (I say if only because I haven’t verified this independently), the problem here is less religion-based irrationality but patriarchy/misogyny-based irrationality. So he’s comparing apples to oranges in an attempt to prove that irrationality = religion/faith = bad as compared to supposedly completely rational secular/atheist folks.
Obviously the patriarchal attitude permeates the religion as well, but it isn’t the sole cause of what can go wrong in religion just as religion isn’t the sole cause of patriarchy and misogyny. Plenty of secular folks have wrongheaded attitudes about women. Plenty of secular folks harass, marginalize, or otherwise act/think in ways that harm women. Religion does not have a corner on this market.
Just as anyone can use the Bible or the Qur’an or the Torah to justify any bad thing they want to do, so can they use those books to justify any good thing they want to do — like feeding the poor, taking care of widows and orphans, and being a good host, to name a few.
But the bad justifications are just that: justifications. I don’t think misogyny and patriarchy is inherent in religion. Nor do I think we can solely attribute religious irrationality to the horrendous rule that women who admit to being raped are admitting they did something wrong themselves. That’s all about Men and their Dominance Issues, and one can find analogs of varying degrees across all patriarchal cultures, including ours, and including the secularists among us.
It’s not the same thing as believing in Intelligent Design because that is purely (or majorly) about religion. Apples and Oranges. (Not that I agree with /approve of either ID or Sharia law as regards rape.) I think it would help us all if secular folks would stop using examples of misogyny to denigrate all aspects of religion. It’s reminiscent of the way some people say “Race isn’t the problem, Class is,” when really it’s Race and Class and a whole bunch of other things individually and in tandem. But the relationship is extremely complex. Don’t toss it all together as if it’s a simple 1 to 1 equation.
I’m curious to know how people like Ico are going to ‘end oppression.’ How do you define it? What people in the West sometimes view as repressive is a cherished and shared cultural value in the East.
I’m curious to know why no Mozlem was asked or consulted about exactly what Shari’ah says about rape. As far as I can tell, the word of (yet another) White non-Muslim Western man was taken. I know it’s par for the course, but it’s a little disappointing on a blog like this.
We do speak English… we do have resources available for all online or in books … we do know about our own law and can interpret or explain it to non-Muslims perfectly well. Perhaps even better than people who don’t practice or believe in our religion do.
Just FTR, Shari’ah law — not the politicized tool that is enshrined in “constitutions” and as a football for parties and individuals jockeying for power — does not say that a woman who accuses a man of rape has “automatically” confessed to adultery. Despite what others may wish or say, Shari’ah law is not black and white. There is ample grey area. There is a lot of room to maneuver.
Like anything else, Islam and Shari’ah are subject to use and exploitation by people wishing to justify this or that. We here in the so-called “Middle East” see it everyday. Was the Saudi female victim (not forgetting, of course, that there was also a male victim) lashed because she sat in a car alone with an unrelated man (khalwa, which is against Saudi law, but there is nothing in Shari’ah that specifies such a punishment for khalwa), or because she went to the Arab media with her story and embarassed the Saudi gov’t? Her lawyer has also been punished. I mean, with people as pious and holy as te Saud family on the throne, is it possible that this has nothing to do with what Shari’i rulings say, but is being used to cover it up and put a veneer of piety and religiosity on their punishment of this minority woman?
Anyway, my point is, ask a Mozlem. We are capable of speaking for ourselves. Preferably one who has studied Islamic law at the hands of the masters of the law. They are out there (heck, I live near a whole bunch of them and almost all of them speak English).
I’m curious to know why no Mozlem was asked or consulted about exactly what Shari’ah says about rape. As far as I can tell, the word of (yet another) White non-Muslim Western man was taken.
“if what he says about Sharia law is true (I say if only because I haven’t verified this independently)”
from the post itself.
I certainly didn’t take what Jay said as the ultimate truth.
I’m glad that I have readers who do know about Shari’ah Law. Because people like you and Aaminah and Saladin enter the conversation the rest of us can gain some understanding about these issues.
If you wouldn’t mind, can you provide us with some resources about Shari’ah Law? I always envisioned it as some sort of list, ala the 10 Commandments. But obviously that’s not the case.
I should note that, while I do really appreciate you both coming over (I assume from a trackback) I don’t want this to turn into a flamewar. I don’t want to dismiss your anger, but I do ask that you don’t post at Jay as if he were, say, a hateful troll, but instead as if he is a person who may be wrong about a lot, but is willing to listen to why he’s wrong. (That pretty much goes for all the other people who comment, too. No one has displayed unforgivable ignorance, from my POV.)
ABW,
Much respect, but the clear truth is that Jay is not “willing to listen to why he’s wrong”. This is obvious to us because he very strongly spoke about something as if he were an authority on the subject but was 100% wrong. He didn’t have the grace to say “from what I’ve read/been told… and may have been misinformed or misunderstood”. He presented his comments as matters of fact.
And this is something that we Muslims wrestle with CONSTANTLY. For some reason, though we know that PoC in general do not have to accept outsiders telling us what our reality is, people still believe it is perfectly acceptable to do this to Muslims. On the rare occassion that they do allow a Muslim voice in, it is someone who considers themselves “secular” and has rejected main elements of Islam. It is reality in the blogging world, even amongst supposedly well-intentioned people and even amongst PoC that real, practicing Muslims are kept out of the equation. And again, this goes back the the whole issue that I cannot be your only source of education. A) Ask a real Muslim. B) Be ready to listen and accept what they say, not tell them it doesn’t fit your preconceived notions, and C) Do your own research. I’m not saying that to you personally, AWB, because I KNOW you try, I’m saying that to everyone.
There isn’t really a way to give you “Sharia Resources” per se. It is quite a large course of study that takes years and is grounded first in detailed knowledge of the Qur’an and the Hadiths (sayings etc.) of our Prophet (peace be upon him). From there it goes into detailed study of the Caliphs following the death of the Prophet (peace be upon him) and their rulings, and then into a very deep study of law. And it is true that there are different rulings on many matters from different authorities understanding and application. It is not a monolithic entity, but a vast and to some degree evolving science.
Which is exactly why lay people and non-Muslims simply shouldn’t presume to speak on it. It is not a simple answer, it is about having the right question and asking those who know.
However, it is also reality that the form that Sharia takes in today’s societies is a far cry from true Sharia. I honestly cannot think of a single nation that claims to be under Sharia that actually upholds the true values of Sharia all the time. Many man-made rulings and pre-Islamic or modernist ideas have been allowed to permeate because of oppressive cultural norms. But in much the same way that we can say that the Bible did not sanction slavery as it was practiced in the US and its practicioners claimed, we should also be able to recognize that the Qur’an (which is the first basis of Sharia) does not sanction many things that its so-called practicioners claim. The problem is not with the religion, nor with the code of law; the problem is, as always, with the selfish and hateful way that humans will twist anything to suit their own purposes.
There isn’t really a way to give you “Sharia Resources” per se. It is quite a large course of study that takes years and is grounded first in detailed knowledge of the Qur’an and the Hadiths (sayings etc.) of our Prophet (peace be upon him). From there it goes into detailed study of the Caliphs following the death of the Prophet (peace be upon him) and their rulings, and then into a very deep study of law. And it is true that there are different rulings on many matters from different authorities understanding and application. It is not a monolithic entity, but a vast and to some degree evolving science.
This is very illuminating because, as I said, I had assumed it was just a list of rules like the commandments or Leviticus, etc. Obviously it’s much more complicated than that.
Aaminah and Umm Zaid, thank you for commenting on this.
I am always uncomfortable when people who don’t appear to be Muslim talk about what “goes on in Islam” or “Sharia Law,” because I have received different information about it. I’m not a Muslim, so I have never felt comfortable necessarily saying much beyond what I said above, about ideas of “over there” and “how they treat women” as if it’s a separate thing from anything going on in the west, and how that bugs me.
I have some confusion around what I feel comfortable saying or what is respectful or not respectful. Because: when I went back to school a couple years ago, I first got to take a class by a professor who was Muslim and who outlined some basic teachings - these “basic tenets” have an official name, and I need to dose up on the Ginkgo Biloba or something cuz I’m forgetting names of everything lately (including a friend last night) - but my point is, what that professor taught bore no resemblance to what I had ever heard previously about Islam. Even pieces I had previously heard that were technically not false were also not even close to the whole truth.
And then I did independent studies on a Muslim woman writer who is a self-proclaimed Muslim feminist. And she was a devout Muslim, and I was surprised, because I had that impression of “feminist Muslim woman” in the west is always supposed to mean “woman who is from a Muslim culture who gives it the finger, like western women think she should!” Which I say not to be inflammatory, but as an example of judgmental ignorance about it that I learned in my own culture.
I hope my long-windedness is not an obnoxious de-rail here. What’s on my mind is that what I was taught about Islam made me feel the same as I felt when I heard things about what Jesus Christ was supposedly like as a person - heartsick. That in the way things started out, it was some pretty revolutionary social justice stuff going on, towards everyone, including towards women, and a lot of people don’t even know that. I mean I certainly didn’t, and I’ve been fairly preoccupied with religions for most of my life.
So I end up feeling like, dang, you (whichever “you” is talking bad about Islam as a religion) are being disrespectful towards a religion based on stuff that isn’t even true about it.
Now, I am not in a religion, although I find many religions compelling on an emotional and spiritual level. But again, because I’m not Muslim, I feel like who am I to ever blurt out my feelings of protectedness about it? At the same time, I feel like it is a betrayal of some kind to not speak up, especially when Muslim people are ignored or discounted.
So, again, Aaminah and Umm Zaid, thank you for commenting here, I was glad to read your words.
Joan, you know I love ya and feel ya. I have a knee jerk reaction to pretty much anyone who says things about anyone else’s spirituality or religious practice, no matter what it is. Because I believe that pretty much all religions are maligned to some degree in this hyper-secularized society. It is somehow “ok” to mock someone’s deepest convictions. Even if I don’t have the answer or know just what that religion teaches about a particular matter, I am quicker to say “um, that is us imposing our own culture and norms on them. Where are we getting our information? Is it accurate? Is it over-simplified? Do we have a ____ around who can tell us if this is even true?” I believe that across the board, whether its Buddhism, Hinduism, Wiccan, whatever. Unless it is something we have come from ourselves or studied extensively, chances are we don’t know as much about it as we think we do. And we all have our biases and baggage that we bring in as we judge those faiths that are different than our own.
Friday Blogwhoring
by matttbastard
Happy holidays to our Southerly neighbours, two of whom kindly presented holiday themed posts yesterday. Hope you’re having a halfway-decent BND/Black Friday, y’all. Love and runaway consumerism forever.
(All Hail The Que…